LDS Church and "Mormon"

[malkie]

“Do your research” is code for “I don’t know what I’m talking about.

I tend to agree. I mean, if I disagree with someone, and I can explain why they are wrong, I’m going to set them straight in clear terms. Telling people instead to “Do research!” is just trying to imply that one knows more than they do, while conspicuously failing to demonstrate it. So it’s a sign of ignorance, not of knowledge.

Besides which, in some cases the statement that "I've done my own research" may mean only that the person has confirmed that a bunch of ignorant folks online agrees with them - said folks chosen for their specific prejudices.

[Kishkumen]

From what I can tell, it seems like all of these LDS people reacting to the news of the Dehlin lawsuit were doing their usual "Church effectively can do no wrong, and its critics are always assumed guilty" thing. As soon as I said I hoped Dehlin would prevail in the suit, the sharks were circling. One fellow said he couldn't even use the phrase "March Madness" in his business, and I asked if he thought that was a good thing, further suggesting he was making my argument for me. It is the same kind of emotional flailing that I remember from my earliest days in online apologetic "discussions."

One guy even suggested that if I were a parasite like Dehlin, then I deserved bullying too.

LOL. I asked him whether wishing people ill was the way he lived his faith, and someone else gave me the equivalent of an eye-roll, "Puhleasse!"

It is weird to me that the teachings of Christ are easily tossed out the window when anyone takes what these folks consider to be the wrong side of the issue. I mean, I do not support every position or tactic John Dehlin takes, but, to me, the bigger issue is the corporate abuse of the law to bully people into submission (corporate lawfare against anyone weaker or less wealthy). I don't think any of us benefits from the great advantage corporations have over the little people in the courts.

[Kishkumen]

John live-streamed on the situation. His account contradicts the way members are depicting the situation. According to his telling, he voluntarily worked with the LDS Church to resolve the Church's concerns about possible copyright violations. The Church's representatives pointed out some instances they claimed were problematic, and John cooperated. He then invited them to point out all instances, and he would work with them to resolve the issue. The Church refused and insisted on mediation through lawyers. One of the problems the Church has is John's use of the term Mormon. They Church wants John to rename his podcast. John told them up front that he would not do that.

I can't say that I trust the Church's version of the story, or how members (or bots pretending to be members) are depicting the issue online, and John seems credible about this situation. If you want to watch his livestream where he provides his account:

https://www.youtube.com/live/WFepk2ZoJt ... j0s3vW8sSe

The Church is out to put an end to Mormon Stories by lawfare. Disappointing? Yes. Surprising? No.

[Kishkumen]

The Church evidently asked for John to change the name of the podcast to Ex-Mormon Stories with Dr. John Dehlin, and they wanted to dictate that this be the logo for the podcast in a uniform font size.

Bonkers.

[Fence Sitter]

If the Church were to prevail in this, what would stop them from going after any use of the word Mormon?

[Kishkumen]

If the Church were to prevail in this, what would stop them from going after any use of the word Mormon?

Television shows?

[drumdude]

From what I can tell, it seems like all of these LDS people reacting to the news of the Dehlin lawsuit were doing their usual "Church effectively can do no wrong, and its critics are always assumed guilty" thing. As soon as I said I hoped Dehlin would prevail in the suit, the sharks were circling. One fellow said he couldn't even use the phrase "March Madness" in his business, and I asked if he thought that was a good thing, further suggesting he was making my argument for me. It is the same kind of emotional flailing that I remember from my earliest days in online apologetic "discussions."

One guy even suggested that if I were a parasite like Dehlin, then I deserved bullying too.

LOL. I asked him whether wishing people ill was the way he lived his faith, and someone else gave me the equivalent of an eye-roll, "Puhleasse!"

It is weird to me that the teachings of Christ are easily tossed out the window when anyone takes what these folks consider to be the wrong side of the issue. I mean, I do not support every position or tactic John Dehlin takes, but, to me, the bigger issue is the corporate abuse of the law to bully people into submission (corporate lawfare against anyone weaker or less wealthy). I don't think any of us benefits from the great advantage corporations have over the little people in the courts.

You have to remember that in their worldview, the LDS church is literally run by Jesus Christ himself. Jesus can do no wrong, his church can do no wrong, the leaders can do no wrong. Anyone standing in its way is by definition working against Jesus.

It implicitly demonizes any pushback and the people criticizing the Mormon church. It's really sad but inevitable.

[bill4long]

If the Church were to prevail in this, what would stop them from going after any use of the word Mormon?

If John loses the case, he just needs to switch from "Mormon Stories" to "Mormonism Stories." "Mormonism" isn't trademarked.

Or perhaps "Mormonite Stories." "Mormonite" was coined by a newspaper in 1831.

If John loses, Bill will be next.

[drumdude]

The Secular Argument: To win a trademark case, the Church must prove the word "Mormon" is a valuable, recognizable brand that they use in commerce.

The Religious Instruction: Under President Russell M. Nelson, the Church has officially labeled the word "Mormon" as an "offensive" term and a "victory for Satan."

Legal Conflict: In court, the Church is currently defending the term as a vital "family of marks" they have used for 200 years, while simultaneously telling its members that using the term is a spiritual error.

If only Rusty Nelson had some sort of prophetic power to foresee the problems with demonizing the word Mormon!

[Equality]

The church tried unsuccessfully to trademark the word "Mormon" for all religious purposes.

Therefore, all John D needs to do is claim that Open Stories is a religion, and the Mormon Stories podcasts it produces are religious expression.

Case closed.

We've all been waiting the last 20 years for JD to drop the facade and just embrace his inner Prophet yearning to break free.

Now is his opportunity to seize the day!