It’s weird that cinepro is just waltzing by Lemmie’s point, that she was gracious enough to make a few times now, and just keeps repeating himself. This is MG-tier trolling.
- Doc
If Lemmie's point is that the fact that Russell M. Nelson and co. are LDS leaders should make their getting the vaccine problematic in some way (even though they're also in their 80s and 90s), then I've addressed it as directly as I can. From a public health standpoint, as long as the LDS leaders didn't cause a delay of some sort in the vaccination schedule, then it's fantastic that they got their vaccines. From a public health and scientific standpoint, that's the only way to look at it.
If you understood some other point having been made, I can assure you no attempt at waltzing has been made. It just got lost in the discussion.
I think cinepro is probably right. Well, with the caveat that the leadership certainly has an amount of privilege that made it both possible and benefitial for them to be early recipients of the vaccine. You can't argue that their example is benefitial without acknowledging this is due to their position as influential members of the community. So they were early recipients whose getting the vaccine was announced in a news release along with statements of support for widespread vaccination.
Privilege like that is part of the reality of our society. It would be more offensive if there had not been a publicity campaign attached implying their privilege only benefited them. Otherwise it would be stupid for the State of Utah to not have used them in this way. Show me a dozen other individuals in Utah whose example would be more effective if you disagree. The Utah Jazz? The surviving Osmonds?
Privilege like that is part of the reality of our society.
Really? So, separation of church and state is put aside so that ONE church can be privileged? Maybe that happens, it doesn't make it acceptable. It certainly wouldn't work elsewhere, one can only hope.
Privilege like that is part of the reality of our society.
Really? So, separation of church and state is put aside so that ONE church can be privileged? Maybe that happens, it doesn't make it acceptable. It certainly wouldn't work elsewhere, one can only hope.
Probably true but I think it's more of a case of celebrity/influence than religious exemption given the news release. Plus, the influence extends into Idaho, California, Arizona and residuals elsewhere. It's privilege that benefits them but it's how any marketing campaign works. Sucks that already privileged people are rewarded further by cashing in on their influence like that but it's the world we live in.
To be clear, I don't think this is really about the LDS Church exerting influence over the State of Utah. The church has pull in Utah and the region around it. The people involved weren't jumping line in an extremely egregious degree like the soul cycle trainer or OJ Simpson. It's kinda hard to say it's not acceptable when, stripped of the Mormon connotation here, it is kinda foundational to how crap works in the US in 2021. Or pretty much ever.
So, why wouldn’t a simple statement by the First Presidency stating that they registered like everyone else and will get their shots while urging the membership to do the same not be enough?
Did other faith leaders in Utah jump the queue, too?
Really? So, separation of church and state is put aside so that ONE church can be privileged? Maybe that happens, it doesn't make it acceptable. It certainly wouldn't work elsewhere, one can only hope.
Probably true but I think it's more of a case of celebrity/influence than religious exemption given the news release. Plus, the influence extends into Idaho, California, Arizona and residuals elsewhere. It's privilege that benefits them but it's how any marketing campaign works. Sucks that already privileged people are rewarded further by cashing in on their influence like that but it's the world we live in.
To be clear, I don't think this is really about the LDS Church exerting influence over the State of Utah. The church has pull in Utah and the region around it. The people involved weren't jumping line in an extremely egregious degree like the soul cycle trainer or OJ Simpson. It's kinda hard to say it's not acceptable when, stripped of the Mormon connotation here, it is kinda foundational to how Crap works in the US in 2021. Or pretty much ever.
Huh. Maybe we aren't using the phrase 'separation of church and state' in the same way. This casual discussion of privilege exercised by one religion would get NOWHERE here on the East Coast if that topic came up.
Probably true but I think it's more of a case of celebrity/influence than religious exemption given the news release. Plus, the influence extends into Idaho, California, Arizona and residuals elsewhere. It's privilege that benefits them but it's how any marketing campaign works. Sucks that already privileged people are rewarded further by cashing in on their influence like that but it's the world we live in.
To be clear, I don't think this is really about the LDS Church exerting influence over the State of Utah. The church has pull in Utah and the region around it. The people involved weren't jumping line in an extremely egregious degree like the soul cycle trainer or OJ Simpson. It's kinda hard to say it's not acceptable when, stripped of the Mormon connotation here, it is kinda foundational to how Crap works in the US in 2021. Or pretty much ever.
Huh. Maybe we aren't using the phrase 'separation of church and state' in the same way. This casual discussion of privilege exercised by one religion would get NOWHERE here on the East Coast if that topic came up.
I'm not using the phrase because in this case I don't think it's the mechanic involved. Getting a handful of old white guys in New York to get the shot isn't meaningful in influencing over half the state to look at it favorably. Bernie Sanders? Mike Pence? Andrew Cuomo? We televise politicians with diverse appeal getting shots for a reason.
Last I checked this pandemic was a big deal and we as a society were supposed to be mobilizing to fight it. The LDS church has a role in that. I can't begrudge their leadership setting the example, or the State for ensuring they got the shot and the message out. Like I said, show me a dozen other candidates with more pull if that's wrong. It has reach. Don't know what else to say.
So, why wouldn’t a simple statement by the First Presidency stating that they registered like everyone else and will get their shots while urging the membership to do the same not be enough?
Come on...2021? The general has to eat the agent orange-soaked bread.
Huh. Maybe we aren't using the phrase 'separation of church and state' in the same way. This casual discussion of privilege exercised by one religion would get NOWHERE here on the East Coast if that topic came up.
I'm not using the phrase because in this case I don't think it's the mechanic involved.
i think that's the point, then. I have no doubt there was inappropriate influence exercised. Church-broke state officials know their place.
I'm not using the phrase because in this case I don't think it's the mechanic involved.
i think that's the point, then. I have no doubt there was inappropriate influence exercised. Church-broke state officials know their place.
I'd be right there with you if they just got the shot and then huddled up in their offices. But it was a media campaign when they got the shot. So. We disagree.
Also, I get nervous when phrases like "no doubt" get used from a position where such definitive knowledge seems impossible. Is it an example of privilege and influence resulting in their benefiting in ways that are not accessible to the average Jane? Yeah, probably. Their influence has value that gets exploited by both the Church leadership and those trying to boost the vaccine. But that's basically America. And frankly it's been far worse for most of human history.