Ray A: The Gandhi of Internet Mormonism?

[_Ray A]

Ray:

Let me put this as simply as possible. Submit the PM, dated Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:37 pm--I.e., the "deranged prick" message-- to Dr. Shades, so that he can confirm whether or not I altered it. I have already sent him my PM, cut-and-pasted directly from my "Sentbox." Are you now reneging? C'mon, Ray, everyone here is curious. Amantha, on another thread, asked me to do this.

Check your PM dated: Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:23 pm (Not the 10:37 one)

That is the one you altered.

You're playing mind games, Scratch, and you know it.

I wanted to hold off on doing it, since I believe it runs contrary to Shades's vision for the board. I'm pretty sure that he doesn't want to have to play "judge" for this kind of baloney. Furthermore, I don't want any of my very reliable "sources" to get the idea that I am going to throw them under the bus. But, after putting up with yet another round of your crap, I'm willing to throw down.

Your "verifiable sources" have nothing to do with this. It was your PM. It's in my inbox. Don't bring them into this. In this instance I couldn't care less who your "verifiable sources" are. As far as I understand Shades' vision for the board, it's one of free speech. And nothing else.

So: put up or shut up. You have carried on relentlessly, going so far as to compare me to Mark Hofmann. Well, put your money where your mouth is, big guy. Submit the PM to Shades. Here, again, for your convenience, is the time signature for the "deranged prick" message: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:37 pm. Let him compare and see whether or not you have been "tinkering with the evidence," as you have accused me of doing. I have already submitted the message from my outbox.

Why should I submit anything to Shades, when I've already submitted everything to the board? Keene can rummage through my PMs all he likes. And if/when he does, he's going to see how you altered the PM of Nov. 29, 2007 5.23pm, for board posting, and to DECEIVE board participants.

And that's the key issue: You have taken MDB participants for a ride, by your deception!

[_Mister Scratch]

Why should I submit anything to Shades, when I've already submitted everything to the board? Keene can rummage through my PMs all he likes. And if/when he does, he's going to see how you altered the PM of Nov. 29, 2007 5.23pm, for board posting, and to DECEIVE board participants.

And that's the key issue: You have taken MDB participants for a ride, by your deception!

Ray, you have been carrying on for some time now. You have been saying that I "altered" the so-called "deranged prick" message. Submit it to Shades, Ray. Go ahead and show him how I've altered it. Shades is a neutral party. I have already submitted the "deranged prick" message to Shades. It is in his PM box. Go ahead and submit your version of it to him, and let's see if I have "altered" anything, as you claim. Why is it that you're so afraid to do so? Man up, Ray. Submit the PM. Unless you've got something to hide, that is.

Look: I've done my half here. Perhaps Shades can oblige us by posting on this thread, and stating whether or not he's got the "deranged prick" message, which you claim I altered. (I can tell you he does, since it has been noted in my "Sent" box.) Why are you so afraid for him to make the comparison, Ray? After all, you were really flailing about early on in the thread. I've now conceded to your demands, and yet here you are, panicking and refusing to submit to the test. Hmmmmm......

[_Mister Scratch]

Ray:

Let me put this as simply as possible. Submit the PM, dated Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:37 pm--I.e., the "deranged prick" message-- to Dr. Shades, so that he can confirm whether or not I altered it. I have already sent him my PM, cut-and-pasted directly from my "Sentbox." Are you now reneging? C'mon, Ray, everyone here is curious. Amantha, on another thread, asked me to do this.

I wanted to hold off on doing it, since I believe it runs contrary to Shades's vision for the board. I'm pretty sure that he doesn't want to have to play "judge" for this kind of baloney. Furthermore, I don't want any of my very reliable "sources" to get the idea that I am going to throw them under the bus. But, after putting up with yet another round of your crap, I'm willing to throw down.

So: put up or shut up. You have carried on relentlessly, going so far as to compare me to Mark Hofmann. Well, put your money where your mouth is, big guy. Submit the PM to Shades. Here, again, for your convenience, is the time signature for the "deranged prick" message: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:37 pm. Let him compare and see whether or not you have been "tinkering with the evidence," as you have accused me of doing. I have already submitted the message from my outbox.

This is a bad test. Copying and pasting is easy to alter. If it comes down to proof I suggest you both take screenshots of your inbox complete with sender and timestamp. Otherwise whoever is lying can keep on lying.

How is it a "bad test"? I've sent my version first. Therefore, if, as Ray claims, I have altered something, Shades will be able to spot it. Ray should have the altered "deranged prick" PM in his messagebox. Well, if he's got it, then let him give it to Shades.

[_Ray A]

Ray, you have been carrying on for some time now. You have been saying that I "altered" the so-called "deranged prick" message. Submit it to Shades, Ray. Go ahead and show him how I've altered it. Shades is a neutral party. I have already submitted the "deranged prick" message to Shades. It is in his PM box. Go ahead and submit your version of it to him, and let's see if I have "altered" anything, as you claim. Why is it that you're so afraid to do so? Man up, Ray. Submit the PM. Unless you've got something to hide, that is.

Look: I've done my half here. Perhaps Shades can oblige us by posting on this thread, and stating whether or not he's got the "deranged prick" message, which you claim I altered. (I can tell you he does, since it has been noted in my "Sent" box.) Why are you so afraid for him to make the comparison, Ray? After all, you were really flailing about early on in the thread. I've now conceded to your demands, and yet here you are, panicking and refusing to submit to the test. Hmmmmm......

You still don't get it, and you're still playing mind games to save your sorry ass.

Here is the issue: DID YOU ALTER ANY POSTS, or rather PMs? (I have to be technical with you, because you're a Master Twister)

Yes, or no?

[_Mister Scratch]

Ray, you have been carrying on for some time now. You have been saying that I "altered" the so-called "deranged prick" message. Submit it to Shades, Ray. Go ahead and show him how I've altered it. Shades is a neutral party. I have already submitted the "deranged prick" message to Shades. It is in his PM box. Go ahead and submit your version of it to him, and let's see if I have "altered" anything, as you claim. Why is it that you're so afraid to do so? Man up, Ray. Submit the PM. Unless you've got something to hide, that is.

Look: I've done my half here. Perhaps Shades can oblige us by posting on this thread, and stating whether or not he's got the "deranged prick" message, which you claim I altered. (I can tell you he does, since it has been noted in my "Sent" box.) Why are you so afraid for him to make the comparison, Ray? After all, you were really flailing about early on in the thread. I've now conceded to your demands, and yet here you are, panicking and refusing to submit to the test. Hmmmmm......

You still don't get it, and you're still playing mind games to save your sorry ass.

Here is the issue: DID YOU ALTER ANY POSTS, or rather PMs? (I have to be technical with you, because you're a Master Twister)

Yes, or no?

Go ahead and keep up the ruse, Ray. You demanded that Shades, Liz, Keene, et. al. look into the matter. Now you've got your wish, and yet what do you do? You begin flailing about even more. What's the matter? Afraid that you've been caught? Just submit the posting for inspection, Ray.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Scratch lied.

I'm sure you've convinced yourself with your own explanation for why you don't find Ray's threats "fascinating".

I must have missed the memo saying that I need to account to you for what interests me and what doesn't interest me. My understanding of the reasons for my interests is quite enough for me, and your opinion of the reasons for my interests is of precisely no importance. I don't care.

I think that is what fascinates you, not that it's really some incubation for future nazi mass murderers, as much as you insinuate on the same thread. Because if it were really the fact that it's incubating future mass murderers that fascinates you, minds like Ray's should be more fascinating than people making fun of you.

Apparently my own opinion about what interests me isn't of any relevance to you as you consider the question of why certain things interest me and certain things don't.

Nevertheless, as I've said before, I'm intrigued by social pathologies. And I'm interested in what social pathologies may yield as they impact certain kinds of susceptible individuals.

I'm not interested in the psychology of specific people, and I don't do pop psychology -- on line or anywhere else. I'm really not particularly concerned, for instance, with what childhood traumas, toilet-training mishaps, or bedwetting embarrassments may have made Scratch the way he is. On the whole, on a scale of one to ten, my interest in the genesis of Scratch's malevolent mendacity is roughly 0.0000023. That's a little higher than the figure for my interest in your opinion of my reasons for being interested in what I'm interested in, but not much.

[_Ray A]

Go ahead and keep up the ruse, Ray. You demanded that Shades, Liz, Keene, et. al. look into the matter. Now you've got your wish, and yet what do you do? You begin flailing about even more. What's the matter? Afraid that you've been caught? Just submit the posting for inspection, Ray.

It has been submitted. On the board. You still haven't explained why you altered the PM. I don't want some inner circle of mods to judge this. I want the whole board to judge this.

Are you expecting favours from the mods? You know you lied, and I know you lied. You know you altered the post to deceive readers, and I know you altered the posts to deceive readers.

Your credibility is at stake here, Scratch.

If you can/will do this sort of thing, then how can anyone on this board believe what you write? If you have deceived, or tried to deceive, the posters on MDB, thinking they are just gullible sycophants of your rantings, then you underestimate their intelligence.

[_Mister Scratch]

I'm not interested in the psychology of specific people, and I don't do pop psychology -- on line or anywhere else. I'm really not particularly concerned, for instance, with what childhood traumas, toilet-training mishaps, or bedwetting embarrassments may have made Scratch the way he is.

Wow, what an imaginative cheapshot, Prof. P. by the way: Have you noticed that you've responded to my inquiries into "LDS academic embarrassment" with nothing but ad hominem attacks? You know, this is pretty foolish. There are a number of TBMs from the MADboard who lurk here, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of them saw your endless taunting of Yme. How do you suppose they are reacting to your repeated dodges of my questions? What if struggling members are watching right now, Prof. P.?

On the whole, on a scale of one to ten, my interest in the genesis of Scratch's malevolent mendacity is roughly 0.0000023. That's a little higher than the figure for my interest in your opinion of my reasons for being interested in what I'm interested in, but not much.

Of course you have little "interest" in it, since that would entail your having to take responsibility for the part you played in it.

[_Mister Scratch]

Go ahead and keep up the ruse, Ray. You demanded that Shades, Liz, Keene, et. al. look into the matter. Now you've got your wish, and yet what do you do? You begin flailing about even more. What's the matter? Afraid that you've been caught? Just submit the posting for inspection, Ray.

It has been submitted.

Submit it to Shades, Ray. I have. Why won't you?

On the board. You still haven't explained why you altered the PM. I don't want some inner circle of mods to judge this. I want the whole board to judge this.

Are you expecting favours from the mods?

What, now you are accusing the mods of being in "cahoots" with me? Wow, you really are low.

You know you lied, and I know you lied. You know you altered the post to deceive readers, and I know you altered the posts to deceive readers.

Your credibility is at stake here, Scratch.

So is yours! As amantha said, you would not be able to live this down for a long time. Submit the message to Shades, Ray. The longer you delay, the more suspicious you look.

If you can/will do this sort of thing, then how can anyone on this board believe what you write? If you have deceived, or tried to deceive, the posters on MDB, thinking they are just gullible sycophants of your rantings, then you underestimate their intelligence.

Again: what are you afraid of, Ray? Submit the post. I have; why won't you? It will be quite easy for Shades to tell whether or not it has been altered. Are you afraid of something?

[_Ray A]

Again: what are you afraid of, Ray? Submit the post. I have; why won't you? It will be quite easy for Shades to tell whether or not it has been altered. Are you afraid of something?

Afraid? I'm afraid your reputation is in complete shatters.

Do I have to repeat? I don't need to submit anything to mods. I have, and will continue, to submit everything right here on the board.

Did you get a PM from Gad? Did he disown you for the blatant liar you are?