JOSEPH sMITH'S Character

[_why me]

I love geodes and the Mississippi river. Unfortunately, many LDS left Hancock County, but haven't left Hancock County alone.

You got that right!!

Hancock County needs a captain for their people's militia to protect the county from those gosh dang Mormons. Are you interested?

I hear that there is a catholic brigade. Sign up there.

[_Bob Loblaw]

I wonder what Joseph Smith would think about why me being his character witness.

[_Quasimodo]

In what time frame do you expect this to happen? Just how sure are you?

In the next hundred years or so, maybe sooner. I find as I get older that I'm not as sure about things as I used to be. This is either wisdom or senility. Given that, I'm fairly sure.

The trend in advanced countries is moving away from organized religions. In Europe especially. That trend is also evident here in the U.S. More mainstream religions (Catholic, Protestant) are seeing major declines in membership. More radical religions such as the LDS church (sorry) are seeing even greater declines (before you demand a CFR, the stats are quite easy to find on Google).

The world is a very powerful influence on the souls of man. Even the gospel had to hide in the beast of Rome in order to be saved for the time of growth.

I find that amusing. Had it not been for the Roman Empire and it's promotion of Christianity (Constantine), there would be no Christian religion now.

If the second witness of the gospel shrinks it will still be alive enough to do what it is supposed to do. This is called faith. Faith in the final outcome and not in the day to day details. When we embrace day to day we blow in the wind and are tossed about with no purpose or direction.

Please see my sig line. "Faith is believing what you know ain't true" Mark Twain.

[_huckelberry]

Only one river of significance in the USA.

You have to go west to find the one river of significance in the USA.

Green, Colorado, Snake, Salmon,Clearwater, Lochsa, Selway, Clark Fork, Priest River ,Columbia, to start a list. One?

By the way I think your comment about not always trusting mens images of God was worth saying.

[_Nightlion]

You may be right Quasi if what we see today is all that Mormonism is. Right now, there is a very corporate conservative Mormonism that teaches that business success as an indication of a person's spiritual and leadership value that has gained control of the mainstream. It isn't interested in real spiritual experiences like Paul or Joseph Smith had, but instead has focused on feelings and urban legends as substitutes. It often adopts fundamentalist Christian concepts such as young Earth and other such non-sense instead of critically thinking about and considering the true nature of the universe as we see in science. If this Joseph Smith's legacy, then he deserves to end up as a footnote in history and to be forgotten.

The foot note of history will be the LDS perversion of the Restoration. The love of Joseph Smith has already been severed from that dead limb. Like reading a book for the first time, when Zion finds faith enough to arise or be called back from whence it was taken the name and fame of Joseph Smith will be redeemed from the ill fame of his haters inventions and Mormon indifference to what he was given.

[_Nightlion]

As usual, Night, I can't agree with what you've said. I think Joseph Smith's teachings will gradually fade into obscurity. I do really admire your commitment to your beliefs, though.

Joseph's teachings are not really that important.(???) His importance is founded on the church that he created for the restoration and on the Book of Mormon. This is his foundation. The rest can fall into obscurity.

What kind of church did Joseph found? Today, in the 21st century the church stands for a belief system that many churches do not. To live the commandments to the best of one's ability and repent when one strays from them. That god is a personal god and that not only is he our father but also our friend. Pray often, study the scriptures, live faithfully and choose the right with the holy ghost as the guide.

Not bad really. Such is the church that he founded with god's help.

Other than just Mormon say so, what evidence is there that the gift and power of the HG is actually present in LDS lives?

What are the standards for competent gospel understanding of what precisely the HG does and how it is acquired?

What scripture requisites were held up before all those who claimed to believe to prove that they had agreeably met the conditions whereby their names where taken as having God put his name and power upon them?

You are saying that the evolution of the LDS Church to fall into the creation of a god after the likeness and image of the world is what really matters.

[_Nightlion]

As usual, Night, I can't agree with what you've said. I think Joseph Smith's teachings will gradually fade into obscurity. I do really admire your commitment to your beliefs, though.

In what time frame do you expect this to happen? Just how sure are you?

The world is a very powerful influence on the souls of man. Even the gospel had to hide in the beast of Rome in order to be saved for the time of growth. If the second witness of the gospel shrinks it will still be alive enough to do what it is supposed to do. This is called faith. Faith in the final outcome and not in the day to day details. When we embrace day to day we blow in the wind and are tossed about with no purpose or direction.

Esther 4:14

For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but thou and thy father's house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?

The will of God will happen. If one falls so as to not do the will of the Father then someone else will arise. This is faith. And with Mordecai it was faith even to death. I pray for the strength of Mordecai. I think you must ask your self a serious question. Just where do you place your faith so it is steady and does not turn to and fro?

You truly do not know the power of God unto salvation. The gospel was hidden in the beast??????

[_Quasimodo]

What happens if two Nightlions meet, each committed with all their soul to two incompatible beliefs? The rest of us who are not interested in putting ourselves in harm's way for theological propositions had better take cover when that happens.

Like a particle of anti-matter that suddenly comes into contact with a particle of matter? They both annihilate each other in an explosion that destroys all those in proximity.

Unlike many defenders on this board, I find that Nightlion is a true believer of his very own theology. Say what you may about him, you have to agree that he is honest in his beliefs. He is also a good fellow and is never insulting to anyone while defending his thoughts. In my book, he gets many points for that.

I think many 'devout' members here are often just trying to stave off their own insecurities by attacking others.

But as you hint, there is one comforting fact about religions: so many of them have faded back into obscurity in the history of humanity so far that there is no reason to think that any of them, let alone an outlier like Mormonism, will be around for ever.

Yep, we may not see it, but I think a day will come when the LDS church will exist only in an online encyclopedia along with the Shakers.

[_Nightlion]

I don't think that the LDS church has led anyone astray with its teachings because they are centered in Christ, the holy ghost and with the Father.

But is the church charismatic now? No.

There is a great big difference between the appearance of coming off centered in Christ the HG and the Father and the actual possession of the same..........................................the latter actually MUST cause powerful charisma for it is not of man but of power and that in and of the Holy Ghost. The evident tokens of LDS banal same ol same ol everybody knows nothing about everything is proof of vacant spirituality at the highest level and trickled down to the lowest common denominator.

No different than every other so called Christian way that supposes Christ is the placebo for Gentile lust and creed consciousness.

[_Bob Loblaw]

Other than just Mormon say so, what evidence is there that the gift and power of the HG is actually present in LDS lives?

I know! Hardly anyone sees God's messages in mountains. Very sad.