Evolution Again!

[_Jason Bourne]

I want to take a moment and thank everyone for all the interesting discussions on this subject.

To Ceeboo for bringing all these questions up.

To Honerentheos thank you for recommending the book Your Inner Fish. I am reading it now. I look forward to other books on this topic and may ask for recommendations.

To Dr W for all your posts. I wish I understood more of what you say better but I do understand a lot of it and my education level at 53 years old is going up. It is long past time I educate myself on this topic.

And to many others as well who are taking time to explain this to those of us more ingnorant on the subject.

[_Ceeboo]

Hey Jason!

I want to take a moment and thank everyone for all the interesting discussions on this subject.

To Ceeboo for bringing all these questions up.

To Honerentheos thank you for recommending the book Your Inner Fish. I am reading it now. I look forward to other books on this topic and may ask for recommendations.

To Dr W for all your posts. I wish I understood more of what you say better but I do understand a lot of it and my education level at 53 years old is going up. It is long past time I educate myself on this topic.

And to many others as well who are taking time to explain this to those of us more ingnorant on the subject.

You're most welcome!

I agree that these discussions are very interesting!

I would also like to add my thanks to those you mention above (as well as the others who have contributed) for the time and effort taken to bring their thoughts, knowledge and perspectives to our collective table.

Good stuff indeed!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_DrW]

I want to take a moment and thank everyone for all the interesting discussions on this subject.

To Ceeboo for bringing all these questions up.

To Honerentheos thank you for recommending the book Your Inner Fish. I am reading it now. I look forward to other books on this topic and may ask for recommendations.

To Dr W for all your posts. I wish I understood more of what you say better but I do understand a lot of it and my education level at 53 years old is going up. It is long past time I educate myself on this topic.

And to many others as well who are taking time to explain this to those of us more ingnorant on the subject.

Thank you, Jason. Very kind of you.

(Still waiting for my magic cereal from that rascal Ceeboo, though. Joined his team and didn't say a word about mitosis and evolution, but haven't seen anything yet. Still run to the mailbox every afternoon in hopeful anticipation.)

[_Bret Ripley]

Hey again, Bret!

I'm not sure I'd describe a system in which some 98% of the species that have ever lived have gone extinct as especially intelligent. But be that as it may ...

Yea, there is that 1 in 1,000 species thing again.

Can I ask you a couple of questions?

Of course! Even though I am probably one of the least qualified to answer them, I'll give it a shot.

How do they know how many have not been found - if they have not been found

How does one establish these numbers for things that have not been found?

Well, it starts with looking at the fossil record. Some 250 million fossils have been catalogued, and these represent some 250 thousand species. However, only about 5% of all known current species are found among these fossils. In other words, there is no fossil record for 95% of species living today. From this, we can surmise that the fossil record for any give period is also spotty. Anyway, next you take the huge number of fossils from species that are extinct, and the rest is math and statistical analysis.

Okay, so then for 400 million years, there was no "selection pressure" for this fish.

Is that right?

For the coelacanth? Do you realize that modern coelacanths are not actually of the same family as fossilized coelacanths? In fact, there are no fossilized versions of modern coelacanths.

But even if fossilized coelacanths were indistinguishable from modern ones, the most we could say is that there has been little or no morphological change in the bones or other hard bits that actually become fossilized. We wouldn't know whether internal organs (for example) underwent a significant change or not. As it is, the fossilized coelacanths were significantly smaller than modern ones, and also lacked some internal structures that are present in modern-day coelacanths.

As to your question about selection pressure: I'm not sure there is ever a lack of some type of selection pressure. But remember: for evolution to work, there must also be some new trait (mutation) that enhances survival/reproduction that gets passed on. If a population is well-suited to its environment (and marine environments tend to be more stable than those on land), it shouldn't be surprising that these populations experience little morphological change.

Can I still get my magic cereal?

You may ideed!

It's on the way.

{runs to mailbox}

[_Ceeboo]

Hey W!

(Still waiting for my magic cereal from that rascal Ceeboo, though. Joined his team and didn't say a word about mitosis and evolution, but haven't seen anything yet. Still run to the mailbox every afternoon in hopeful anticipation.)

You haven't received it yet?
Does your wife get home before you?

Hmmmm?

by the way, thanks for not saying a word about the mitosis and evolution thing!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[Guest]

Still friends?

Of course mate

Trilobites lived on earth for 250 million years with very little change!

Funny how you didn't pay any attention to the ages of the fossils that clearly documented the history of whale evolution, but now you are stating the age of '250 million years' without quivication. As if its somehow 'authoritative'...!

Some might accuse you of cherry picking the data you happen to 'like'.
But I say it's all part of the old Ceeboo charm

[_Ceeboo]

Hello lovely people!

So, I just finished watching a 59 minute video (below) that I thought I would bring to the table, should anyone who has been participating in the thread be interested.

Dr. Neil Shubin
Associate Dean, Biology Sciences Division
University of Chicago

http://youtu.be/H4c8L3vUH6Y

I found it completely fascinating!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_DrW]

Hey W!

Does your wife get home before you?

Peace,
Ceeboo

Aha! Gotcha.





-----------------------------------------------

Seriously, thanks for the video link (and my wife just fessed up, so you are off the hook).

[_Quasimodo]

Hello lovely people!

So, I just finished watching a 59 minute video (below) that I thought I would bring to the table, should anyone who has been participating in the thread be interested.

Dr. Neil Shubin
Associate Dean, Biology Sciences Division
University of Chicago

http://youtu.be/H4c8L3vUH6Y

I found it completely fascinating!

Peace,
Ceeboo

Hi friend Ceeboo.

I stayed up late (late for me) to watch it. It was great. I loved the whole 59 minutes!

Thanks!

You do realize that this excellent video is not helping our team Ceeboo cause.

[_Ren]

So, I just finished watching a 59 minute video (below) that I thought I would bring to the table, should anyone who has been participating in the thread be interested.

So did you manage to watch through that whole video and still think evolution is BS?

If so, I hereby present 'Team Ceeboo' with the:
"I wouldn't recognise real science if it slapped my arse and called me Shirley"
award...