Ray A: The Gandhi of Internet Mormonism?

[_Mister Scratch]

Again: what are you afraid of, Ray? Submit the post. I have; why won't you? It will be quite easy for Shades to tell whether or not it has been altered. Are you afraid of something?

Afraid? I'm afraid your reputation is in complete shatters.

Do I have to repeat? I don't need to submit anything to mods. I have, and will continue, to submit everything right here on the board.

Did you get a PM from Gad? Did he disown you for the blatant liar you are?

Now why would Gad do that, Ray?

Also: Have you submitted that message to Shades yet, or are you still shaking in your boots?

[_Ray A]

Now why would Gad do that, Ray?

Also: Have you submitted that message to Shades yet, or are you still shaking in your boots?

I'm trembling in my boots. Listen, buddy, can you read plain English? You altered your PM, and you altered it to DECEIVE MDB participants. The evidence is right here on this board. Would you like me to go through it - again? What astonishes me about you, is how you can look someone in the eye - and lie. Like Hofmann.

[_Mister Scratch]

Now why would Gad do that, Ray?

Also: Have you submitted that message to Shades yet, or are you still shaking in your boots?

I'm trembling in my boots. Listen, buddy, can you read plain English? You altered your PM, and you altered it to DECEIVE MDB participants. The evidence is right here on this board. Would you like me to go through it - again? What astonishes me about you, is how you can look someone in the eye - and lie. Like Hofmann.

Still waiting. Tapping my watch, in fact. I'm sure Dr. Shades will be happy to acknowledge that, at the very least *I* have held up my end of the bargain.

Let me remind you again what you said, Ray:

The larger issue here is, Scratch: DID you lie? Did you alter the post where you called me a "deranged prick"?

Well, I have submitted that exact message to Dr. Shades. Let him evaluate whether or not I have "altered" it. All you have to do is cut-and-paste the version that is in your In Box. This will be a trust-worthy, neutral evaluation. Even DCP has characterized Shades as "fair-minded." So go ahead and send it, mate!

[_Ray A]

Still waiting. Tapping my watch, in fact. I'm sure Dr. Shades will be happy to acknowledge that, at the very least *I* have held up my end of the bargain.

What bargain? I don't recall there ever being a "bargain". Did Shades, or some mods, make a "bargain" with you?

[_Jersey Girl]

Copy and pasted material sent to the mods can be altered prior to submission. The quickest and most reliable method would be to give keene permission to open the PM's folder for Ray, let him have a look and either confirm or deny Ray's claims.

Or you could both get a room.

;-)

[_Mister Scratch]

Copy and pasted material sent to the mods can be altered prior to submission. The quickest and most reliable method would be to give keene permission to open the PM's folder for Ray, let him have a look and either confirm or deny Ray's claims.

Or you could both get a room.

;-)

Would you like me to send the "deranged prick" Pm to Keene as well? That way he can check to see whether or not the version of it in Ray's PM folder matches it? Because I'm willing to do that as well; I have already sent it to Shades. Why won't Ray do the same? For some reason, Ray seems unwilling to allow this comparison to happen. Now, why might that be?

[_Daniel Peterson]

Wow, what an imaginative cheapshot, Prof. P. by the way: Have you noticed that you've responded to my inquiries into "LDS academic embarrassment" with nothing but ad hominem attacks?

You're wrong. I've responded to your claims of an "LDS academic embarrassment" by dismissing them as baseless and you as not worthy of serious conversation.

It's your campaign of malevolent and mendacious character assassination against me to which I've responded by branding you malevolent and mendacious. Which, incidentally, is not, strictly speaking, a specimen of the ad hominem logical fallacy -- and would not be even if you were not mendacious and malevolent (which, plainly, you are).

You know, this is pretty foolish. There are a number of TBMs from the MADboard who lurk here, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of them saw your endless taunting of Yme. How do you suppose they are reacting to your repeated dodges of my questions? What if struggling members are watching right now, Prof. P.?

They're free to express any concerns about any issue raised here with me, either by private e-mail -- no pseudonyms, though; Scratch is a low but cunning sort, and he lusts to use anything I say against me, however hard he has struggle to twist it -- or on the MAD&D board. I'm not "dodging your questions," Scratch. I'm refusing to respond to them. You and I both know that they're not asked in good faith, I don't grant that they concern a genuine issue, and, as we both know, you're just looking for more ammunition to use against me in your bizarre crusade. I'm not going to waste my time on any attempt at a substantive conversation with you. You forfeited any claim to that sort of attention from me long, long ago.

I'll be here a bit longer for my periodic denial of your various slanders against me (it's rather like the Sixth Fleet's practice of regularly sailing through disputed waters in order to make a point) and, on this particular occasion, to point to your attempt to deceive readers of the board by tampering with the personal message that you sent to Ray. (You won't admit it publicly, of course, but you and I both know full well what you did.)

Of course you have little "interest" in it, since that would entail your having to take responsibility for the part you played in it.

Now you're going to claim that I'm the one who traumatized you? You're still seeking revenge for the fact that the moderators at MAD&D gave you the boot -- not at my instigation, by the way -- over a previous case of dishonesty that is strikingly similar to the stunt that Ray has identified here.

"O what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive." Right, Scratch?

[_Jersey Girl]

Copy and pasted material sent to the mods can be altered prior to submission. The quickest and most reliable method would be to give keene permission to open the PM's folder for Ray, let him have a look and either confirm or deny Ray's claims.

Or you could both get a room.

;-)

Would you like me to send the "deranged prick" Pm to Keene as well? That way he can check to see whether or not the version of it in Ray's PM folder matches it? Because I'm willing to do that as well; I have already sent it to Shades. Why won't Ray do the same? For some reason, Ray seems unwilling to allow this comparison to happen. Now, why might that be?

I said nothing in my post about your "sending" any sort of PM to keene. Please read it again.

My only concern is that right now there are two presumably adult males in different parts of the world posting back and forth essentially saying:

Show the teacher your note!
No you do it!
No you do it first!

And I am actually reading it.

Good bye.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Copy and pasted material sent to the mods can be altered prior to submission. The quickest and most reliable method would be to give keene permission to open the PM's folder for Ray, let him have a look and either confirm or deny Ray's claims.

Precisely.

[_Gadianton]

This is kind of funny, because i prophesied the other day that this exact scenario would play out. I'll have to dig up this post. Like I said, though, if Ray isn't telling the truth, his best bet is to pursue it hotly anyway. And that's because, the apologists will see this as a "anti-mormon" board and won't believe that the mods will unearth the evidence if Scratch is lying. So it's worth it to call for justice loudly. And in the event they do go for it, and Scratch is vindicated, the accusation will be made that the mods are "in on it" and tampering with the evidence. and already we're seeing those accusations that the mods are covering for him.

Sometimes that boring course in game theory I took at BYU pays off...Hinckley ought to take it.

I can see Scratch is letting this get to him a bit and willing to lay down the cards. I just think it will be unfortunate if vindicating himself on this will cause his "informants" to fear their PM's might be read in the future.