Eric.

[_Ray A]

But of course DCP is deeply offended at anyone even slightly questioning the motives and deeds of faithful Mormons, and beckons all of us to "hear the other side", which as has been pointed out is strangely inconsistent with abundant Mormon hagiography

What? When has he asked us to "hear" the other side? When? Show me.

Bad wording on my part. He beckons us to "hear the other side" when it comes to "the enemies of Mormonism", but not when it comes to Joseph Smth. I know for a fact (from his comments on MAD) that he's not in favour of having investigators exposed to books like Mormon Enigma.

"Milk before meat", and all that.



.

[_Ray A]

While I don't agree that Daniel should have bothered the family with the post, Eric didn't allow it to remain the scenes either. He dragged it on to this board, along with his criticisms of his step-dad and his religion and if you had any respect for Eric or his family at all, you would be telling him to stop dragging this all over the board and go work on building a relationship with his family.

This is where you don't have a very good grasp of Eric's situation, Jersey Girl. "Building relationships" is a two-way thing. When it comes to a parent-child relationship, especially when the child is only 15, who do you think should take the major role in "building relationships"? What, in your mind's eye, do you envision Eric doing, or could have done in the past, to "build relationships". He's an atheist. He does not believe Mormon doctrine. He resented being forced to read the scriptures and "toe the line".

What should a 15,16 or 17 year old do in this situation?

[_Ray A]

Eric's full name is all over the Internet and why? Because he chose to disclose his name in reference to his efforts against West Ridge.

Tell me, what the hell possible difference does all of this make now?

Had Daniel never contacted step-dad, Eric's full name would still be all over the Internet, along with his announcement on this board posted as GoodK regarding the Mormon Gulag website, and it would be no effort whatsoever to identify the posts in question as being posted by Eric Norwood regarding the family.

Okay. If a person is Gay, just as a pure hypothetical, who should tell the world he/she is Gay?

Sure, Eric revealed his real name because he had to do so for his first article. He chose to do so at that time. So is it okay for someone else to reveal who he is before that time? You are anonymous here. What if I found out your real full name, and posted it here on MDB. How would you feel about that? If you chose to later reveal your real name, it would make no difference to the fact that it was none of my business to reveal your name before you did.

[_Paul Osborne]

What should a 15,16 or 17 year old do in this situation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7samxKB7E8

Paul O

[_Gadianton Plumber]

Parents: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfXG1IGr ... re=related

[_harmony]

While I don't agree that Daniel should have bothered the family with the post, Eric didn't allow it to remain the scenes either. He dragged it on to this board, along with his criticisms of his step-dad and his religion and if you had any respect for Eric or his family at all, you would be telling him to stop dragging this all over the board and go work on building a relationship with his family.

This is where you don't have a very good grasp of Eric's situation, Jersey Girl. "Building relationships" is a two-way thing. When it comes to a parent-child relationship, especially when the child is only 15, who do you think should take the major role in "building relationships"? What, in your mind's eye, do you envision Eric doing, or could have done in the past, to "build relationships". He's an atheist. He does not believe Mormon doctrine. He resented being forced to read the scriptures and "toe the line".

What should a 15,16 or 17 year old do in this situation?

Jersey isn't talking about when Eric was 15. She's talking about now. Or do you think he still thinks like a 15 year old?

[_Ray A]

This really needs to stop, Ray.

Now be a good friend and tell Eric:

-That because his mom doesn't know DCP, it doesn't follow that his step-dad doesn't know him.

-That his mom doesn't monitor every phone call, email and meeting that her husband has.

-That Eric's knowledge of DCP showing up to his home once, doesn't rule out other meetings and other types of contact elsewhere.

-That his step-dad obviously knows DCP well enough to put him on the distribution list for the email that started this whole thing in motion.

I really don't consider any of these to be serious points. You also sound overly defensive of DCP here. Did Eric's dad really know DCP "well"? The first counter to that is DCP's own admission that they were never close friends. Sort of like "workmates" (in FARMS), shared beliefs, and a few phone calls over that time. That's it. But suddenly, Eric's step-dad becomes very important because of what Eric posted. "I have known him for....."(add all the years you want, 25,30, whatever), says DCP. I've known some people for 30 years but they're still basically "acquaintances", not close friends. As far as emails go, I belong to an email group, and many of them I haven't seen in 35 years (when I left to migrate to Oz). But if you ask me about their marriages, family problems, children problems, I wouldn't have the faintest what's going on except from brief references in emails.

You see, Jersey Girl, the reality is that DCP only took a real interest in this because of what Eric posted. If it hadn't been for that, he would be no closer to Eric's step-dad now, than he was 30 years ago. It became his interest because Eric was criticising Mormonism, and that's the real motivational factor behind all this. Suddenly, this "friendship" took on very important dimensions!

In regard to my criticisms of Ira Fulton, here was DCP's reply: "I've met him." What does "meeting him" have to do with anything? In spite of the fact that millionaire Fulton declared Michael Quinn a "non person", a cipher, and basically a feral apostate, doesn't wash one whit with DCP. "I've met him", which means in cryptic, "he's a good guy".

[_marg]

What should a 15,16 or 17 year old do in this situation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7samxKB7E8

Paul O

I don't know but that song brought back memories from 1964..here's another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4itKuvpW6F0

[_Daniel Peterson]

"Freudian"???

It's simply outrageous on your part, and outrageously false, to suggest that I do or would endorse criminal threats against somebody so long as the person making the threats is a believing Latter-day Saint.

I realise anything that impugns you is "outrageous".

No. But, in your more lucid moments, Ray, I don't think you would ever have seriously entertained the thought that I support criminal behavior if the criminal happens to be LDS.

I'm sorry that it's come to this sort of accusation.

He beckons us to "hear the other side" when it comes to "the enemies of Mormonism", but not when it comes to Joseph Smth. I know for a fact (from his comments on MAD) that he's not in favour of having investigators exposed to books like Mormon Enigma.

"Milk before meat", and all that.

Ray, you misunderstand me so fundamentally and absolutely that I have to say that I'm genuinely stunned.

Though you repeat it a million times, this really has little or nothing to do, in my mind, with Mormonism. I've denied that and denied that, and, plainly, you think I'm either lying or self-deceived.

But here's the truth: I genuinely do not believe that it's within the competence of message board posters, let alone that it's somehow their prerogative, to assign public guilt and blame for problems in a private family that doesn't post on the board, that they do not know, and of whom they've heard only an account from a party to the problems. You really don't know what you're talking about. Why is this a particular concern to me in this case? Not because the stepfather involved is a Mormon, or a Mormon apologist, but because he's been a friend for something on the order of twenty years, and I simply can't sit back silently while he's maligned and condemned by people who have neither the competence nor the obligation to judge him. Do I ask that Eric be condemned instead? No. I ask that people here back off altogether from taking sides. It's nobody's business here.

[_Jersey Girl]

Daniel,

Do you by any chance still have the email from the family on your computer?