McKenna Denson goes down in flames. :-(

[_Red Ryder]

Mike cooperating with the church is concerning considering Mike’s relationship with the church and vice verse.

Any chance Mike is getting paid by the church?

[_Meadowchik]

And I have to say that as people press this idea that the accuser has to be believed no matter what, that is not very helpful to accusers in the end. The accused also deserve some protection from false accusations, and part of that protection is the openness of others to the possibility that an accusation might be false. We can’t be asked to abandon our critical faculties either way. The accused is not innocent just because, but s/he is also not guilty just because. Real victims will not be helped by giving a pass to false accusers.

A reminder that Denson's case once made public was never about people believing her no matter what. Arguably, her case was compelling only when she recorded admissions from the accused.

[_Jersey Girl]

Sorry, that's not an argument.

I didn't intend to supply an argument. I'm telling you that the post really isn't helpful in response to your own remarks about it.

The post explains how an actual victim can behave like Denson has behaved. In other words, her behaviour can be consistent with being victimised as a child and as a missionary in the MTC.

I know what the post explains. I could have explained it myself. The problem with the post is what it doesn't attempt to explain.

The list of behaviors that it addresses is incomplete.

[_Jersey Girl]

I don’t condone Mike Norton’s attack on Ms. Hughes, but then I am also not in the position of having discovered, to my abject horror, that the person I have been backing and supporting as an ally in our shared cause may be some kind of aggressive sociopath and con artist who makes false accusations and might threaten to blow up my family.

If I had been in Norton’s shoes, I definitely would have flipped my crap, but I doubt I would have done it in the way he did. I am a totally different kind of nut.

I don't think I've read every post on this thread. Of those I have read here and elsewhere (reddit, Facebook,YouTube) it seems to me that many are overlooking what the experience might feel like from Mike's perspective with regard to the possibility of sociopathy as part of the psych soup that he believes he is dealing with.

Anyone in their right mind would have flipped their crap good and proper. Would they have done so in a recorded phone call that contained threats? Who knows. I do think his response was understandable.

If folks can't understand that, they need to take a another look at the situation.

[_Meadowchik]

Sorry, that's not an argument.

I didn't intend to supply an argument. I'm telling you that the post really isn't helpful in response to your own remarks about it.

The post explains how an actual victim can behave like Denson has behaved. In other words, her behaviour can be consistent with being victimised as a child and as a missionary in the MTC.

I know what the post explains. I could have explained it myself. The problem with the post is what it doesn't attempt to explain.

The list of behaviors that it addresses is incomplete.

The stat on sexual assault victims being likely to be victimised more than 3 times (paraphrased) does address Kish's post. That alone makes it helpful. I don't recall you broaching that side of the topic, either, so it would seem to add to what's been said.

[_Kishkumen]

Disclaimer: I haven't watched this video yet. It's one of a couple or three I'm checking out today. But since he was mentioned...

Shawn McCraney with a response to McKenna Denson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT4fD9Mh1qQ

Great video. I generally agree with Shawn. Sounds like he runs a good show and tries to do right by everyone.

[_Jersey Girl]

The stat on sexual assault victims being likely to be victimised more than 3 times (paraphrased) does address Kish's post. That alone makes it helpful. I don't recall you broaching that side of the topic, either, so it would seem to add to what's been said.

My goodness. I said that the reddit post doesn't address the full list of behaviors. We're not just talking about sexual assault allegations here, nor is Norton.

Did I miss something in the reddit post or did you?

[_Kishkumen]

We're still left with at least two likely victims of an MTC president, Denson included, and a church that failed to property advocate for them.

Agreed. The LDS Church has been deeply irresponsible in its handling of these issues. And I do not doubt that these two women are victims. It is vital to remember this.

[_moksha]

Any chance Mike is getting paid by the church?

Being in on the receiving end of a dossier from Kirton McConkie is not really payola. Nor is receiving complimentary Utah Jazz tickets or free dinners from paid lobbyists or foreign agents. As Kim Jong-un says, "Norton knows all the best words".

[_Kishkumen]

A reminder that Denson's case once made public was never about people believing her no matter what. Arguably, her case was compelling only when she recorded admissions from the accused.

I can see this is frustrating for you, Meadowchik. I am sorry that June Hughes’ own behavior has undermined her accusation against Bishop because it sounds like the guy really was a creep. Why anyone would want to exonerate a guy who is pretty clearly a creep is beyond me. I am just reiterating the point that people can’t and should not ignore evidence undermining an accuser’s case just because victims regularly demonstrate these self-defeating behaviors.