Racism and the Book of Mormon

[_Darth J]

I don't care who said what about skin color. People have their opinions, including GAs. Unless they got a special revelation before their comment, I consider it an opinion. Nothing more. And so, there is a debate about it on here and on MDD and on blacklds.org. Such is the way it is inside a vibrant church.

There is no debate within LDS doctrine about the Lamanties being given a dark skin as a sign of a curse from God. Politically correct, revisionist wishful thinkers within the Church might be debating that, but no such debate exists within the Church itself. (The Church qua Church.)

Nevertheless, I'm glad to see Why Me explicitly admit that he does not believe the Church is true. According to Why Me, LDS doctrine is nothing more than an uninspired conglomeration of speculation and personal opinion.

Unfortunately, Why Me's admission that he doesn't really think the Church is true also makes it clear that he is trolling, not sincerely trying to defend the Church.

[_why me]

This is a pervert cyberstalker. I'm glad I don't need to know about him.

Mary, you really need to use the 'Foes' feature to put this creep on ignore. Don't let him near your mind, unless you have the facilities for the psychic equivalent of deep cleaning.

You have no sense of humor.

[_why me]

Unfortunately, Why Me's admission that he doesn't really think the Church is true also makes it clear that he is trolling, not sincerely trying to defend the Church.

I am saying that people are debating the issue. And if this were sunday school I would bring it up to have a dialogue in the classroom. No problem with that at all. I don't think that the issue is settled.

[_why me]

It does. The problem with you Mary is that you see it all in black and white, no pun intended. You miss out on the debate because for you it is all etched in stone.

Oh.....my.......goodness. Stop attacking me Why Me, and address the arguments...

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

What I am saying is that people are debating the issue. It is not a settled issue when it comes to curse and skin color. This is why FAIR and blacklds can write what they write about it.

[_Darth J]

Unfortunately, Why Me's admission that he doesn't really think the Church is true also makes it clear that he is trolling, not sincerely trying to defend the Church.

I am saying that people are debating the issue. And if this were sunday school I would bring it up to have a dialogue in the classroom. No problem with that at all. I don't think that the issue is settled.

Welcome to the Apostate Club, Why Me. I don't believe what the Church teaches, either.

I wholeheartedly encourage you to continue ignoring the words of our modern prophets and apostles. Your dismissive attitude of "it's just their opinion" is a nice touch, too.

[_Mary]

Critics claim that the LDS scriptures link a person's skin color to their behavior in the pre-existence.

From http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_ ... scriptures


I don't believe it. Honestly. Critics like the missionaries that I used to tract with as a teenager, critics like Randy Bott, critics like Joseph Fielding Smith.

"According to the doctrine of the church, the negro because of some condition of unfaithfulness in the spirit — or pre-existence, was not valiant and hence was not denied the mortal probation, but was denied the blessing of the priesthood."

Come on FAIR. Be HONEST. It is your own people who introduced these ideas, not critics.

[_Drifting]

And I do believe that the comments about skin color were not etched in stone.

No. They were clearly scratched into Gold!

[_Themis]

No, but debates and discussions are just that.

What is important is being honest in discussions. If you would, you would not get people calling you on it so much.

And I do believe that the comments about skin color were not etched in stone. When one looks at the use of white and black in the Book of Mormon we can see that it may have had nothing to do with skin color at all. Like I said earlier there are sections in the Book of Mormon where Lamanites because of their righteousness became white. Can this be skin color? And instant turning to white? I doubt it. I would be pissed off to lose my identity in such a way. But...the debate continues.

So the Book of Mormon and church teaches that God has cursed people with a dark skin in an instant, or at least in a short time, but he cannot do the same to make them white or a lighter skin.

[_Drifting]

So the Book of Mormon and church teaches that God has cursed people with a dark skin in an instant, or at least in a short time, but he cannot do the same to make them white or a lighter skin.

Spencer W. Kimball thought He could...

[Guest]

You know what's just great about this effort to re-write the plain language of the Book of Mormon is how Mopologists are selectively dismissive of divine intervention. E.g.,

http://www.fairlds.org/authors/gardner- ... -blackness

For Elder Hunter, the change in the skin color is absolutely physical and remains a distinction throughout Book of Mormon history. He provides no explanation for how this alteration occurs, other than to note that it comes through God. Rodney Turner, LDS professor of religion, attributes this pigmentation change to God’s direct and miraculous action[.]

We're talking about a book that says:

--Lehi's party was guided by a magic GPS device that worked through their faithfulness;
--God told Nephi how to build a ship that was capable of crossing the ocean;
--Lehi's party had to eat raw meat because they couldn't light fires, but God made the raw meat taste sweet to them;
--The pre-mortal Jesus touched several rocks gathered by the Brother of Jared so these rocks would glow in the dark;
--A flotilla of Bronze Age wooden submarines with no method of steering or propulsion all managed to land together in the same spot in the western hemisphere after being set adrift in a storm that lasted for a year;
--Jesus teleported from Jerusalem to America to repeat the Sermon on the Mount;
--We are repeatedly reminded of miraculous stories like prophets making mountains disappear, Moses parting the Red Sea, etc.;
--The book was allegedly translated into English after an angel told Joseph Smith where it was, and eventually he used a magic rock to see what the reformed Egyptian characters meant;

all of which I can accept.

But you mean to tell me that God can miraculously change people's skin color? That's just ridiculous!