Mike Norton to sneak into temple to film porn?

[_RockSlider]

You said that questions 3-5 remained unanswered.
I asked you to show me questions 3-5.
Now you are saying you went back and numbered them after the fact.

And you are instructing ME to try and keep up when you can't keep up with posts that you yourself have authored?

Jersey Girl, once again try and keep up:

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:16 pm I ask my set of questions in this thread
viewtopic.php?p=1165658#p1165658

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:56 pm you said you stood by your previous analysis
viewtopic.php?p=1165669#p1165669

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:06 pm you seem to be waffling now, but I did not know this at the time.
viewtopic.php?p=1165671#p1165671

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:06 pm we both post at the same time where I numbered my questions, unchanged from 9:16pm, I had not read your 10:06 post at the time of numbering these questions and noting your 9:56pm answer, not seeing your waffeling as of yet.
viewtopic.php?p=1165672#p1165672

Thank you for answering the questions. If you have listened to that start of the video, you know that Mike freely admits that he was going to accept money for doing this. It was not a prank, and he seemed surprised that his fan base had turned against him, which is the only reason he decided to abandon the plan.

It's good to know you (and SY) give his morals a pass based on his own testimony of the events, knowing he fully intended on doing this and backed out only because of rejection from the xmo community.

[_RockSlider]

Here is an example of why you are too screwed up to deal with. You copied one statement of mine out of this post where I addressed both behaviors. I can't make you read past the first few sentences of a lengthy reply.

We have here an example of escalation of bad behaviors. In the previous thread, where you gave Mike a positive evaluation of an empathetic individual, I've simply asked if, based on this escalation of immoral activity if you still stood by your previous analysis? I was also surprised that SY gave any kind of endorsement to Mike's latest behavior. My opinion of Sam definitely dropped a notch based on his statement.

It seems that since Mike listened to the overwhelming cries of foul from all fronts, his giving up on the plan only highlights what an empathetic individual he is.

It seems you still hold that the end justifies the means.

[_Lemmie]

...If you have listened to that start of the video, you know that Mike freely admits that he was going to accept money for doing this. It was not a prank, and he seemed surprised that his fan base had turned against him, which is the only reason he decided to abandon the plan.

It's good to know you (and SY) give his morals a pass based on his own testimony of the events, knowing he fully intended on doing this and backed out only because of rejection from the xmo community.

Not that I am disputing your take on the video explanation, because I didn't watch it, but there does seem to be a slightly different explanation of what he said that is also being posted online. Here's one example:

...He and a female porn star talked about how it would shake things up if a porno was filmed in a Mormon temple. They chose to publicly talk about the subject, and Mike said that his hope at that point was just to shake up church leaders and maybe get them to "waste money" on beefing up security at the temples.

Then he was contacted by a person who runs/owns an Adult Film company about actually doing it. They were the ones who set the terms as two women, not Mike. They also, as he put it, offered him a "life-changing" amount of money if he could supply the temple recommends and information about how to do it without getting caught. Mike said he honestly had to sit down and think about it because he's not a wealthy man and the money could make a big difference for him.

So, he started talking to friends about the idea and posting about it in the main sub, specifically asking for opinions. He said he expected "about 10%" of the exmormon community to be outraged by the idea - and he also said that he vastly underrated how negative the response would be. Overall, he said it was about 90% of the exmormon community that thought it was a bad idea for various reasons.

He did spend a lot of time reading people's opinions here on Reddit and on his Facebook. He particularly took note of those of us in the LGBTQ community who explained to him how it would make our lives much more difficult because of the fallout with members of the church.

All of this combined led to him choosing not to contribute anything towards the project. He said that he respected his community too much to ignore our opinions. He also asked himself if this is what he wanted to be remembered for - and he decided that no, it wasn't.

I know a lot of people have been very upset with Mike for all of this, and I wasn't happy about it either. However, I do respect him for taking the time to get our opinions and to take them into consideration when making his decision. Mike may be obnoxious at times and kind of an asshole in his NNN persona, but he's overall a good person. I know this because his decision was locked in when he thought about his actions causing more harm to a person he very much admired - 12 year old Savannah.

I added the bolding; that part seems a little suggestive, doesn't it? Is there still a 'project' in the works?

[_Meadowchik]

If you have listened to that start of the video, you know that Mike freely admits that he was going to accept money for doing this. It was not a prank, and he seemed surprised that his fan base had turned against him, which is the only reason he decided to abandon the plan.

It's good to know you (and SY) give his morals a pass based on his own testimony of the events, knowing he fully intended on doing this and backed out only because of rejection from the xmo community.

Yes, it sounds to me that the thought process started as a revenge fantasy, and then he somehow had an opportunity and pursued it, intending to follow through, thinking other exmos would get a big kick out of it. Then, being surprised and dismayed by the enormous levels of disapproval, he chose his reputation among the community over whatever benefit he foresaw from it.

It's nice to know that this loosely organised, leaderless network of people can at least produce some moderating influence over at least some of its influential members. What the net impact is of that connectedness, who knows.

[_Meadowchik]

...

I know a lot of people have been very upset with Mike for all of this, and I wasn't happy about it either. However, I do respect him for taking the time to get our opinions and to take them into consideration when making his decision. Mike may be obnoxious at times and kind of an asshole in his NNN persona, but he's overall a good person. I know this because his decision was locked in when he thought about his actions causing more harm to a person he very much admired - 12 year old Savannah.

I added the bolding; that part seems a little suggestive, doesn't it? Is there still a 'project' in the works?

Just as an aside, when there are actors in a crime or some other kind of harmful behavior, to me it doesn't matter if one evaluates them as "overall good people." what matters is what boundaries can and should be done to prevent them from harming others. Because "good" people do bad things, incredibly stupid, very harmful things.

But, that little suggestive piece sure is interesting, interesting and disturbing. I don't know how he'd really effectively distance himself from it if it does indeed go forward without him, since he was already so celebratory about it. He'd still be a part of that historical footnote.

[_Jersey Girl]

Here is an example of why you are too screwed up to deal with. You copied one statement of mine out of this post where I addressed both behaviors. I can't make you read past the first few sentences of a lengthy reply.

We have here an example of escalation of bad behaviors.-

Where?

In the previous thread, where you gave Mike a positive evaluation of an empathetic individual, I've simply asked if, based on this escalation of immoral activity if you still stood by your previous analysis?

I answered you and offered an explanation. Asked and answered.

I was also surprised that SY gave any kind of endorsement to Mike's latest behavior. My opinion of Sam definitely dropped a notch based on his statement.

That is your choice.

It seems that since Mike listened to the overwhelming cries of foul from all fronts, his giving up on the plan only highlights what an empathetic individual he is.

You're entitled to your assessment. He could have had a change of heart or he could have decided that it wasn't in his own best interest to follow through or both.

It seems you still hold that the end justifies the means.

Here you are making yet another non-specific comment. You have not identified in which case I hold that the end justifies the means when I've already given you a lengthy explanation including the Heinz Dilemma which I am more than certain that you haven't read.

[_Jersey Girl]

You said that questions 3-5 remained unanswered.
I asked you to show me questions 3-5.
Now you are saying you went back and numbered them after the fact.

And you are instructing ME to try and keep up when you can't keep up with posts that you yourself have authored?

Jersey Girl, once again try and keep up:

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:16 pm I ask my set of questions in this thread
viewtopic.php?p=1165658#p1165658

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:56 pm you said you stood by your previous analysis
viewtopic.php?p=1165669#p1165669

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:06 pm you seem to be waffling now, but I did not know this at the time.
viewtopic.php?p=1165671#p1165671

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:06 pm we both post at the same time where I numbered my questions, unchanged from 9:16pm, I had not read your 10:06 post at the time of numbering these questions and noting your 9:56pm answer, not seeing your waffeling as of yet.
viewtopic.php?p=1165672#p1165672

Thank you for answering the questions. If you have listened to that start of the video, you know that Mike freely admits that he was going to accept money for doing this. It was not a prank, and he seemed surprised that his fan base had turned against him, which is the only reason he decided to abandon the plan.

It's good to know you (and SY) give his morals a pass based on his own testimony of the events, knowing he fully intended on doing this and backed out only because of rejection from the xmo community.

If you think I am going through more of your BS, you're out of your mind. I've been snowed in for 24 hours, it takes a good 72 hours for me to get bored enough to spend my time doing it.

I am more than certain that whatever you've stated above is not well presented or well thought out.

At this writing I have not viewed the video which is over an hour. I did dart in and out of it the other day but I soon lost interest as I am losing any possible interest in responding to you further.

72 hours. That's what it takes.

[_Jersey Girl]

If you have listened to that start of the video, you know that Mike freely admits that he was going to accept money for doing this. It was not a prank, and he seemed surprised that his fan base had turned against him, which is the only reason he decided to abandon the plan.

It's good to know you (and SY) give his morals a pass based on his own testimony of the events, knowing he fully intended on doing this and backed out only because of rejection from the xmo community.

Yes, it sounds to me that the thought process started as a revenge fantasy, and then he somehow had an opportunity and pursued it, intending to follow through, thinking other exmos would get a big kick out of it. Then, being surprised and dismayed by the enormous levels of disapproval, he chose his reputation among the community over whatever benefit he foresaw from it.

It's nice to know that this loosely organised, leaderless network of people can at least produce some moderating influence over at least some of its influential members. What the net impact is of that connectedness, who knows.

Did you watch the video of the live stream? He could have changed his mind based on self interest or empathy or both.

What's your take on that?

[Guest]

But, that little suggestive piece sure is interesting, interesting and disturbing. I don't know how he'd really effectively distance himself from it if it does indeed go forward without him, since he was already so celebratory about it. He'd still be a part of that historical footnote.

That's what I was thinking, too. No matter how much he denies it, or buries his involvement. That amount of money could be pretty tempting in his position.

[_candygal]

Don't mind me, I don't post often..but this thread is a big "ouch" on so many levels. I listened to Norton and Mormon Stories last month...felt that I understood him more and that there were basic reasons for the things he does. That all being said, I don't dig porn.....anywhere...but the saddest thing I see here is two people I really admire seem to be on the outs...Jersey Girl and Rock....love ya both!