Three Powerful Books

[_mentalgymnast]

Can you give your thinking as to what exactly you found in the book to be so inspiring? People have asked you this repeatedly, and you have posted anything and everything, except for an answer. But here you are opening the thread again, so....again, what exactly did YOU personally find meaningful in Callister's book?

I found his arguments for the bases he covered thorough. Did he cover all the bases? No. But those that he did, he did quite well.

For example, the first chapter is called Man Made or God Given? Did Joseph write it? Did someone else write it? Did Joseph plagiarize it or borrow from other sources? Did Joseph suffer from a mental disorder and this gave Joseph the incentive and drive to write the Book of Mormon?

Callister tackles each one of these theories and shows why they are not completely satisfying. Am I going to sit here and transcribe all of his arguments for you? No. That’s why I suggest and suggested you personally read the book. I doubt that you will because your mind is already settled that the Book of Mormon can’t be of Divine origin.

Regards,
MG

[_honorentheos]

That sounds like a complete waste of time so you're right. I won't read it. There are so many valuable books I'd like to read, many of which I won't be able to get to because life is short and the number of books worth reading numerous. There just isn't time to waste on garbage like an apologetic rehash why the Book of Mormon can't be explained easily. What it also can't be is meaningfully and accurately placed in the ancient Americas so it's pointless as far as books go.

[_Lemmie]

Can you give your thinking as to what exactly you found in the book to be so inspiring? People have asked you this repeatedly, and you have posted anything and everything, except for an answer. But here you are opening the thread again, so....again, what exactly did YOU personally find meaningful in Callister's book?

For example, the first chapter is called Man Made or God Given? Did Joseph write it? Did someone else write it? Did Joseph plagiarize it or borrow from other sources? Did Joseph suffer from a mental disorder and this gave Joseph the incentive and drive to write the Book of Mormon?

Actually, it’s not, you are referring to the second chapter. And yes, the part you mention was based on his devotional and your points were exactly listed in multiple news articles and reviews. For example:

Brother Callister highlighted some of the claims against the Book of Mormon's divine validity. Critics' claims included Joseph's ignorance and lack of education, Joseph conspiring with someone else who had the skills and intelligence to write the Book of Mormon, the idea that the Book of Mormon was plagiarized from other books and that Joseph suffered from a mental illness.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... fvyzSEZxXw

i was asking about your take, not a restatement of facts from reviews. But don’t worry about it, consider my request retracted. There’s no point in repeating your non-response strategy.

[_mentalgymnast]

For example, the first chapter is called Man Made or God Given? Did Joseph write it? Did someone else write it? Did Joseph plagiarize it or borrow from other sources? Did Joseph suffer from a mental disorder and this gave Joseph the incentive and drive to write the Book of Mormon?

Actually, it’s not, you are referring to the second chapter. And yes, the part you mention was based on his devotional and your points were exactly listed in multiple news articles and reviews. For example:

Brother Callister highlighted some of the claims against the Book of Mormon's divine validity. Critics' claims included Joseph's ignorance and lack of education, Joseph conspiring with someone else who had the skills and intelligence to write the Book of Mormon, the idea that the Book of Mormon was plagiarized from other books and that Joseph suffered from a mental illness.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... fvyzSEZxXw

i was asking about your take, not a restatement of facts from reviews.

Yep, you’re right. Second chapter. I am restating the subheadings in chapter 2. I wasn’t looking at the reviews. I had the book in my lap. And again, my take is that he stated plainly why none of these Book of Mormon origin stories are completely satisfying. If one is open to the possibility of there being a God, it’s the divine origin story with plates and an angel that actually make the most sense. I think that’s why a lot of people go that direction, gold plates, etc. The alternatives, on the whole, don’t do justice to the Book of Mormon narrative, it’s complexity and message/testimony of Christ.

If one is already biased towards a disbelief in God and in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, isn’t it rather obvious that the Book of Mormon is dead in the water at the get go, at least as far as that person is concerned? Isn’t it a given that those that would be open to gaining a testimony of the Book of Mormon would be those that are also open to believing in God and in Christ?

The critic’s arguments against the Book of Mormon that Callister lists in chapter 2 are going to be much more attractive to someone who already has determined the unlikelihood of there being a creator God and/or that Jesus Christ isn’t the Savior of the world.

That seems to be a no brainer.

My suggestion to read these three books that I’ve recommended are pointed mainly to those that do believe or or are open to belief in God and in Jesus Christ as being the only begotten son of God and Savior of the world. I have little or no expectation that vocal majority of agnostics and/or atheists on this board would have any real motivation or reason to spend much, if any, time reading these books and really giving them any serious consideration.

Strong the bias among those here is, yes.

Regards,
MG

[_cwald]

MG: Keep chugging your ale Shirts.

Gawd did the church teach you nothing of value ya dope? One does not chug Ale... one sips its cool refreshment of its ice cold goodness on a blistering hot day.... your Mormon bias once again misleads you, whether in science, books, or drinks...

My thought exactly. How can you have a serious conversation with Mormons who believe John Belushi's Bluto is an accurate representation of the adult drinking culture?

[_Lemmie]

Can you give your thinking as to what exactly you found in the book to be so inspiring? People have asked you this repeatedly, and you have posted anything and everything, except for an answer. But here you are opening the thread again, so....again, what exactly did YOU personally find meaningful in Callister's book?

...For example, the first chapter is called Man Made or God Given? Did Joseph write it? Did someone else write it? Did Joseph plagiarize it or borrow from other sources? Did Joseph suffer from a mental disorder and this gave Joseph the incentive and drive to write the Book of Mormon?

Actually, it’s not, you are referring to the second chapter. And yes, the part you mention was based on his devotional and your points were exactly listed in multiple news articles and reviews.
...I was asking about your take, not a restatement of facts from reviews.

Yep, you’re right. Second chapter. I am restating the subheadings in chapter 2.

Seriously? Your “take” on the Book is to restate chapter headings? Unreal. Did you even read it? Or is it just your assignment to push it?

That sounds like a complete waste of time...

Exactly.

[_mentalgymnast]

MG: Keep chugging your ale Shirts.

Gawd did the church teach you nothing of value ya dope? One does not chug Ale... one sips its cool refreshment of its ice cold goodness on a blistering hot day.... your Mormon bias once again misleads you, whether in science, books, or drinks...

Type in “chugging ale” (with the quote marks) into your search bar. It seems as though chugging ale is not out of fashion or so unusual. Maybe you need to get out more and not drink alone?

My point, made earlier, stands...pertaining to bias. Look in the mirror.

My questions went unanswered.

Regards,
MG

[_cwald]

Type in “chugging ale” (with the quote marks) into your search bar. It seems as though chugging ale is not out of fashion or so unusual. Maybe you need to get out more and not drink alone?

[_cwald]

[Guest]

If one is open to the possibility of there being a God, it’s the divine origin story with plates and an angel that actually make the most sense.

I lost belief in the Book of Mormon while hanging onto underlying Christian belief for a number of years. Physics Guy seems to believe in God, or the possibilty of God, and doesn't share your view.

The Book of Mormon fails under the weight of the claims it's a record of a migrating people from the old world to the new. It fails under the weight of the actual evidence regarding the peoples who were here during the period it claims to cover. It fails under the weight of evidence it is thoroughly a book of the early 19th c. frontier.

Believing there may be a god doesn't suddenly make the Book of Mormon more likely to be a true story about a branch of Israel migrating across the oceans to arrive in the Americas and giving rise to an advanced civilization 2,000 years before Columbus. The facts are what they are regardless of your beliefs.