Popular BYU Randy Bott Takes Heat for Comments

[Guest]

Tobin,
I agree with your answer above....thanks.

Now, can you (or anyone) answer this question?

All the apologists keep harping that this is not racial but is a matter of lineage. So, when those members were denied the priesthood prior to 1978, was their lineage checked (ie. their genealogy, etc.) or did they just go by the color of their skin when denying them?

It was pure racism. It was disgusting and unwarranted. IF they had been lead by revelation instead of their own narrow biases, they would have embraced MLK as a prophet as I do (because he spoke the truth) and changed their ways then instead of waiting so long that it became painfully obvious that they had to repent (change) of this.

[_MsJack]

by the way, I've always been a bit miffed that, even in his statement where he's answering for his own errors on the blacks and the priesthood issue, Elder McConkie calls the members to repentance rather than stating that he needed to repent himself. The only error he admits to on his own part is "speaking with limited understanding."

Even when the leaders are undeniably wrong, it's still the members who are wrong.

[_Molok]

They are cowards for not wanting to directly challenge something they believed to have been God's will without feeling they had been compelled by revelation to do so? That makes men who believed themselves to be conduits of God's will on earth cowards?

Maybe not cowards, but they obviously weren't conduits of God's will, and should make everything else they taught suspect.

[_SteelHead]

Race = lineage.

Anyone saying other wise is trying to sell you something. Anyone who says the ban has nothing to do with race is trying to "spin" the past and is trying to ignore brother Brigham.

[Guest]

Now, can you (or anyone) answer this question?

All the apologists keep harping that this is not racial but is a matter of lineage. So, when those members were denied the priesthood prior to 1978, was their lineage checked (ie. their genealogy, etc.) or did they just go by the color of their skin when denying them?

race=lineage.

Those that keep harping that it is a 'lineage' thing are just trying to avoid using a more politically charged word.


As the church expanded world wide and the question arose more and more often, the definition of who was black (cursed) and who was not, changed. It became increasing obvious that the criteria to refuse the priesthood was based on arbitrarily defined lines since it was/is impossible to determine who actually descended from Cain/Ham.

Based on the latest LDS newsroom release it is also clear that the ban is no longer considered doctrine.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

... He continued, quite powerfully, “I know it could. I know the Lord could change his policy and release the ban and forgive the possible error which brought about the deprivation. If the time comes, that he will do, I am sure” (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, 448-49 (1963).

Thanks for quoting this. I was unaware of this statement by SWK, when, as early as 1963, he conceded the priesthood ban was a "possible error." Again, not to 'beat a dead horse,' but it IS time for the Church to issue an official apology and to renounce once and for all the priesthood ban and all reasons offered to support of it. C'mon, Brethren, stand for something!!!

[_harmony]

C'mon, Brethren, stand for something!!!

That would require that they repent. Publically acknowledge that they were wrong. The sun will stop and the earth will implode before that happens.

[Guest]

Loran Blood's long lost brother just posted in DCP's thread, the following:

Perhaps blacks were not valiant in the pre-mortal war. Perhaps they initially sided with Lucifer, but were only barely persuaded at the last minute to follow Jesus Christ, fearing the imminent prospect of forever losing their right to be born. Culturally, blacks are and have been the least self reliant and the most prone to seek entitlements from state and federal governments. What percentage of America's population on welfare are blacks? I don't know, but I'm guessing the majority of welfare recipients are black. It's not racist, it's demographics. Most blacks vote liberal. Liberalism promotes socialism and dependency on government entitlements at taxpayer expense. It's not racism, it's politics.

Look at the behavior of every African government toward its own people. Blacks oppressing blacks. Most crimes against blacks are committed by blacks. Imagine that cultural mentality being given priesthood authority prematurely, just to be politically correct and placate someone's fear of being labeled a racist. Imagine prematurely handing the authority of God to a culture prone to the despotic exercise of even the authority of man. Call me a racist. I'm not one, but I am taking a big risk by speculating on this matter in a public forum.

Bottom line: Jesus Christ is the head of the Church, and he has his reasons for the timing of blacks getting the priesthood in 1978. I don't know the reasons behind it. I enjoy speculating, but at the end of the day, I will align myself with the words of the prophets, even if I do not agree with them or understand them.

Edit: sorry, I misunderstood, thought that Loran himself said this.

Of course, given Loran's claim that slavery wasn't racist, he might as well have said this.

[_consiglieri]

by the way, I've always been a bit miffed that, even in his statement where he's answering for his own errors on the blacks and the priesthood issue, Elder McConkie calls the members to repentance rather than stating that he needed to repent himself. The only error he admits to on his own part is "speaking with limited understanding."

I think McConkie left the door wide open with his injunction that Mormons forget everything that was said on the subject in the past because the leaders "had a limited understanding."

If they had a "limited understanding" then, is it not likely they continue to have a "limited understanding"?

And what might they say today that will not be unsaid tomorrow when "more light and knowledge" comes to them?

Things fall apart. The center cannot hold.
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

I guess we know what Loran likes to do in his spare time - wear bedshits and light crosses on fire.

I am really hoping this was a typo . . .