Benson blows Monson's Arthur Patton tale out of the water

[_Steve Benson]

I have had a person assisting me since 2011 who is not a a Mormon or an ex-Mormon and who does not post or participate on the discussion boards mentioned but who, nonetheless, has provided me access tp all kinds of information, documentation and original sources through their own personal interest in genealogical research and well-honed ability to get to original source material in various locales and through various means. This person has told me that they do not wish to be named or otherwise identified in detail, so I have respected that request. I find it interesting that some here are trying to claim credit as my sources. I will quote people (and do) if they have something unique and contributive to say but documents that are not their own production are available through a range of avenues. That said, if you want to be quoted, let me know why and I'll see what I can do for you.

For a man who has won a Pulitzer, you have a, ehem..., interesting view on proper source citation.

I cite sources that are sources of information. That way, readers can check them and it provides credibility for the case being made.

[_Steve Benson]

Provide the source. If the source is relevant and valuable, I will cite the source. Simple as that. IF you say something that is particular to you and I wish to use your words, I will quote your words and cite you as the person who said them.

Don't you have it backwards there, sparky?

As a grad student had I taken the attitude that I would only cite a source if pressed or asked to do so, I likely would have been expelled for plagiarism.

I do cite documentary sources. I also quote individuals' perspectives about those sources when I wish to invoke their observations. Best wishes in your grad work. I graduated cum laude.

[_Steve Benson]

So, how is, i.e., by what means is Arthur Patton's military service record available? Inquiring minds want to know.

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/archival-programs/military-personnel-archival/ompf-archival-requests.html

Thanks. That site is currently not opening for me, either by clicking on it here or by pasting it into a search engine bar. Will try again later.

[Guest]

@Steve Benson:

What about those 3,900-plus edits in the Book of Mormon, Doc?

The number is misleading, since at a fair guess well over ninety percent of the changes to the Book of Mormon from edition to following edition are in the realm of fixing obvious typos and grammatical difficulties. The actual changes to words are not that many. And contextual changes are almost nonexistent. "Benjamin" to "Mosiah" is probably my favorite, and the change, while it makes easier sense to a casual reader, was probably a mistake of Joseph Smith's in 1837 edition. If you read "Benjamin" in original 1830 context it makes perfect sense: Ammon left Zarahemla when the "emeritus" king Benjamin was yet alive, but in the interim of months he died. So Ammon's calling Benjamin the seer instead of Mosiah was perfectly accurate: Benjamin had retired to the study of his history records, etc. and was known still as "the seer king", or something of the sort.

Not all of the changes to the Book of Mormon are inspired. But none of them change the doctrine in any significant ways. And doctrine is what the book is all about/for....

I gather that such changes are not inspired when supposed word-for-word translations of words provided by God end up being changed out later for preferred words edited in by God's servants as replacement verbiage for God's originally-provided translated words. Or something like that.

[_Shiloh]

I do cite documentary sources. I also quote individuals' perspectives about those sources when I wish to invoke their observations. Best wishes in your grad work. I graduated cum laude.

Yes. A you are a proud graduate of George Whythe University if memory serves.

You have the source citation skills of with. Cleon Skousen. Did you pick these up as a grad student at GWU or did you absorb them as a child at family gatherings?

[_Steve Benson]

I do cite documentary sources. I also quote individuals' perspectives about those sources when I wish to invoke their observations. Best wishes in your grad work. I graduated cum laude.

Yes. A you are a proud graduate of George Whythe University if memory serves.

You have the source citation skills of with. Cleon Skousen. Did you pick these up as a grad student at GWU?

Your memory does not serve you correctly and I have frequently criticized the writings of Skousen, produced by him both as a religious propagandist for Mormonism and as a supposed constitutional scholar for the Freeman Institute.

[_Shiloh]

Your memory does not serve you correctly and I have frequently criticized the writings of Skousen.

And yet you emulate his exemplary analytical skills. Imitation is the highest form of flattery, you know.

with. Cleon Skousen is to Communism as Steve Benson is to Mormonism. The Communist conspiracy is fueled by fluoridation. The Mormon conspiracy is held together by Dr. Pepper and recycled anecdotes about widows and cookies.

[4xbros]

Do you really think so? The timelines look so tight to me that I really can't draw that conclusion. Am I missing something in the timelines I sketched out? Is it really that unlikely that Steve's SO and you found the same key fact by looking at the crew manifests or whatever?

You wrote in your timeline for 10/5/11:

5:22 AM Steve Benson "teases" research results at RfM, crediting the legwork to his significant other
1:31 PM Nevo posts at Mormon Discussions that Patton was recorded as missing due to his own misconduct in the ship's records.
8:32 PM Steve Benson posts at Mormon Discussions on the Patton issue, confirming that Patton was recorded as missing due to his own misconduct.

Steve didn't report any "research results" until several hours after I provided the links to Patton's ship records.

As late as 3:03 PM (or 3:18 PM, take your pick) he posted on RFM: "In the meantime, my significant other is painstakingly forging ahead, making interesting discoveries while urging caution as to proper interpretation and context."

Apparently he hadn't checked in on the Mormon Discussions thread yet.

By 8:30 PM, yes, he was "confirming" my research, as you put it. Later that evening, he posted RFM that "some very peculiar facts are coming to the surface which appear to run strikingly counter to basic claims made by Monson." Contrast that breathless notice with the earlier one.

Pardon my skepticism, but I do think it is unlikely that Steve's SO happened to independently uncover the same information hours after I did.

Does Steve even claim this, by the way? Since it is obvious he places a premium on honesty and integrity, I'd like to hear his account of how he came across this information.

[_Steve Benson]

I have had a person assisting me since 2011 who is not a a Mormon or an ex-Mormon and who does not post or participate on the discussion boards mentioned but who, nonetheless, has provided me access tp all kinds of information, documentation and original sources through their own personal interest in genealogical research and well-honed ability to get to original source material in various locales and through various means. This person has told me that they do not wish to be named or otherwise identified in detail, so I have respected that request. I find it interesting that some here are trying to claim credit as my sources. I will quote people (and do) if they have something unique and contributive to say but documents that are not their own production are available through a range of avenues. That said, if you want to be quoted, let me know why and I'll see what I can do for you.

For a man who has won a Pulitzer, you have a, ehem..., interesting view on proper source citation.

I cite soruces and I cite the words of people who make valuable observations which I wish to quote, with credit to those individuals. In fact, I am frequently criticized in certain circles for citing and quoting too much. Usually, though, that comes from Mormons posting anonymously who don't agree with the point being made.

[_Nevo]

Thanks. That site is currently not opening for me, either by clicking on it here or by pasting it into a search engine bar. Will try again later.

Hopefully the link will at least open for your longtime researcher.