stemelbow wrote:There is no doubt that if the church ever went that route, there'd be huge consequences. I truly don't think the Church would do that, but if faced with a accept the Book of Mormon is inspired fiction or die, I can see how it might choose to accept it as inspired fiction.
stem, supposing the Church did accept the Book of Mormon as inspired fiction (rather than die), how would that impact your relationship to the Church?
It appears to me "the critic" whomever that may include, seems to often be missing the boat in this whole "discussion" thing.
The critics position, as far as I can tell, seems to be "The Church is not true. It simply can't be true. it is proven false on too many fronts to be able to hold the claim that it is true."
The LDS position seems to be, this is true at least for me, "I have faith that the Church is true. This means I hold my faith as the evidence that the Church is closer to being the true Church than any other organization on earth."
I readily acknowledge I can't show you my faith. Faith is personal. in it I see evidence. But I can't show or demonstrate that evidence.
The "critic" in this case has NEVER provided evidence that the Church is not true. Either the critic has lied, or has repeated (knowingly or unknowlingly) a lie, or has not taken all possibilities into account. For matters of faith, this last must be done if one wants to be intellectually honest. Not that one should believe until prove false, but that one cannot claim to have falsified until all avenues have been explored. It's pretty rarea s usually criticism of the Church stems from the first two.
It appears to me "the critic" whomever that may include, seems to often be missing the boat in this whole "discussion" thing.
The critics position, as far as I can tell, seems to be "The Church is not true. It simply can't be true. it is proven false on too many fronts to be able to hold the claim that it is true."
The LDS position seems to be, this is true at least for me, "I have faith that the Church is true. This means I hold my faith as the evidence that the Church is closer to being the true Church than any other organization on earth."
I readily acknowledge I can't show you my faith. Faith is personal. in it I see evidence. But I can't show or demonstrate that evidence.
The "Mormon" in this case has NEVER provided evidence that the Church is true. Either the Mormon has lied, or has repeated (knowingly or unknowlingly) a lie, or has not taken all possibilities into account. For matters of fact, this last must be done if one wants to be intellectually honest. Not that one should disbelieve until prove true, but that one cannot claim to have the truth until all avenues have been explored. It's pretty rare as usually testimony of the truthfulness of the Church stems from the first two.
Edited bcspace's post to help cure the condition known as 'one-eyedness'
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
bcspace wrote: The "critic" in this case has NEVER provided evidence that the Church is not true. Either the critic has lied, or has repeated (knowingly or unknowlingly) a lie, or has not taken all possibilities into account. For matters of faith, this last must be done if one wants to be intellectually honest. Not that one should believe until prove false, but that one cannot claim to have falsified until all avenues have been explored. It's pretty rarea s usually criticism of the Church stems from the first two.
Deutero-Isaiah alone proves without a shadow of a doubt that the Book of Mormon is not an authentic ancient text. And, per the statements of several GAs in GC, without the Book of Mormon the church is not true. QED
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
sock puppet wrote:stem, supposing the Church did accept the Book of Mormon as inspired fiction (rather than die), how would that impact your relationship to the Church?
I don't know. Hypotheticals are tough to answer. Its all make-believe and guessing.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
sock puppet wrote:stem, supposing the Church did accept the Book of Mormon as inspired fiction (rather than die), how would that impact your relationship to the Church?
I don't know. Hypotheticals are tough to answer. Its all make-believe and guessing.
I'm going to guess that your relationship wouldn't change with the church. I'm also going to guess that you might be surprised at a feeling of relief of not having to defend the Book of Mormon anymore.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
stemelbow wrote: I don't know. Hypotheticals are tough to answer. Its all make-believe and guessing.
You don't have a problem with it when you play the possibility game to protect your beliefs. :)
Not more hypocrisy stemelbow...tssk...tssk...(wags finger)
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
I didn't realize you were a firm believer in the Book of Mormon, Ceeboo. I really thought you were not. Well let me extend a hearty welcome, then. Welcome.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.