Sanctorian wrote:2. I also agree this girl has no idea what it means to be a lesbian. All she knows is she has a general attraction to girls over boys. I think it's hard to assign any real sort of sexual orientation until you actually start having sexual acts. What sort of porn gets you off. What do you fantasize about when you masturbate. What sort of sex do you like etc. Until you start performing sexual acts, simple attraction does not seem like a defining moment on your sexual journey.
The confidence with which you express yourself seems misplaced.
You have no idea what she knows. You have no idea whether she masturbates or not. If she does, you have no idea who or what she may or may not fantasise about.
But, as Jersey Girl has pointed out, research shows that teenagers and particularly teenage girls have often reached levels of development and regularly carry out activities that adults who think 'they are just kids' know nothing about.
Water Dog wrote: None of those details matter. Can you please give me the precise mathematical formula for "knowing" whether I am gay or straight or not? Unless you can provide me with this exact formula, along with all the data that feeds into the formula, plus a precise understanding of how to interpret the output of said formula - the answer is, no, you don't "know." ....
Very odd. I reply to Sanctorian, and then WD copies my reply and comments on it as if I was replying to him, leaving out the Sanctorian quote, which makes it clear what I was talking about. The details I refer to matter because Sanctorian referred to them, and I was answering his points.
Now why would he do that?
As to data about the sexual behaviour of adolescent girls -I refer him to the posts by Jersey Girl on these matters. I don't think there is much dispute amongst people who are professionals in the field of child development, as is Jersey Girl.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
6EQUJ5 wrote:Did you ever correct your claim about purple pants?
I didn't make a claim, I laughed at water dog's claim. but if it will stop you from continuing to harass me with PMs, 6equj5, I am happy to say: purple pants have a meaning.
Is the biological fact that girls enter puberty long before their male peers the reason for the mind block that some of the male posters are showing me here that suggests that a girl age 12 (she's actually 13 now) cannot know who she is attracted to?
Keeping in mind that who we are attracted to constitutes our sexual orientation.
Is it that males don't understand or recognize the sexual development of females and a female's ability to know her own mind?
That timing difference is a valid point, but doesn't cross into a knowledge threshold. What are you saying, a girl "can" know at 12, but a boy can't?
I didn't say that a boy can't know.
What I am asserting and I said it outright in the straightforward question I posed is this:
Is it that males don't understand or recognize the sexual development of females and a female's ability to know her own mind?
You copied it yourself. How could you miss that?
What is the magic age where either a boy or girl can know?
When they know.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
6EQUJ5 wrote:Did you ever correct your claim about purple pants?
I didn't make a claim, I laughed at water dog's claim. but if it will stop you from continuing to harass me with PMs, 6equj5, I am happy to say: purple pants have a meaning.
Water Dog wrote:What is the magic age where either a boy or girl can know?
I don't think anyone here has claimed there is some magic threshold that a child crosses at a predetermined time that allows them to say they "know". Instead it is a huge mix between biological and environmental factors coupled with that child's own development that vary wildly from person to person. This creates a scenario in which we can know roughly when the "average" child will begin to think about and form opinions on these things but not what the magic definitive number is. If anything, your line of questioning would be more fitting in saying there is a magic age where they can know. Since you claim it CAN'T be 12/13.
ETA: Jersey, eloquently summing my thoughts into a single sentence.
Jersey Girl wrote:When they know.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
I'm really not sure why this is such a hard concept. See Anne Heche. See stories like this. Countless examples. Go read Robert Oscar Lopez and related blogs. Lopez is known for his writings on gay parenting, which he is opposed to, but the aspect I would draw your attention to is his experience of "learning" he was straight. He's written much about this, and through his blog he's linked to countless others with similar stories. People who based on their childhood environment were convinced they must be gay and lived that way for decades until concluding otherwise.
I'm familiar with Lopez and his associates, and their testimonies. If you go into their childhood histories you will see evidence of some of the environmental influences I alluded to on this thread.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Water Dog wrote:What is the magic age where either a boy or girl can know?
I don't think anyone here has claimed there is some magic threshold that a child crosses at a predetermined time that allows them to say they "know". Instead it is a huge mix between biological and environmental factors coupled with that child's own development that vary wildly from person to person. This creates a scenario in which we can know roughly when the "average" child will begin to think about and form opinions on these things but not what the magic definitive number is. If anything, your line of questioning would be more fitting in saying there is a magic age where they can know. Since you claim it CAN'T be 12/13.
ETA: Jersey, eloquently summing my thoughts into a single sentence.
Jersey Girl wrote:When they know.
All child development takes place on a continuum. Milestones are considered to take place within ranges of what are viewed as norms. We observe the child for emerging abilities to determine whether or not their development is following typical norms. We note when development is uneven as indications of atypical development. ECP's are not equipped to diagnose, they are equipped to identify typical and atypical development, and refer as needed.
Same thing with sexuality. I posted some of the developmental evidence that leads a human being to know who they are sexually attracted to.
She walks when she walks. She runs when she runs. She writes when she writes. She reads when she reads.
She knows when she knows.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Jersey Girl, a variation on this question of how and when people can know they are gay is how and when people can know they are straight.
I am assuming the process of gaining knowledge of sexual orientation is not dependent on which option is chosen, would that be correct, based on your studies?
I'm cutting off my responses right here and saving this for when I return. I really do have a project that needs to get finished and in the mail today. I'll return to take this up with you. Please, if you want to discuss Lopez and/or his associates, the thread is going to become even more cumbersome than it already is and that will largely be on account of the response I myself generate here because there are political and psychological factors that need to be included regarding Lopez/associates and if that doesn't drive you crazy, I will with my responses to it.
She gone.
Water Dog wrote: How do they know they know?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb