Church comments on SEC settlement

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canpakes
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by canpakes »

malkie wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:40 pm
I think it was simply a matter of control.

As far as I can gather there is nothing at all illegal about setting up shell companies.
This is absolutely true, but the typical reasons why they’re set up don’t mesh well with an entity like the CoJCoLDS. Strictly in my opinion.

It would seem more open and honest to have been forthright with the value of the account, rather than try to conceal holdings via shell accounts for fear of the reaction of the public. In other words, better to have ‘owned it’. If leadership felt that the dollar amount created bad optics, then there were other avenues to take.
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Rivendale
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by Rivendale »

Kishkumen wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:02 pm
You people need to calm down! The highest leadership of the LDS Church just broke the law for years on end and were caught. Nothing to see here!
It has become obvious that the type of behavior from Mormon leadership that is deemed unacceptable is always x+1.
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malkie
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by malkie »

canpakes wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:34 pm
malkie wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:40 pm
I think it was simply a matter of control.

As far as I can gather there is nothing at all illegal about setting up shell companies.
This is absolutely true, but the typical reasons why they’re set up don’t mesh well with an entity like the CoJCoLDS. Strictly in my opinion.

It would seem more open and honest to have been forthright with the value of the account, rather than try to conceal holdings via shell accounts for fear of the reaction of the public. In other words, better to have ‘owned it’. If leadership felt that the dollar amount created bad optics, then there were other avenues to take.
I agree - what you hope for from a religious organization that promotes a definition of honesty as avoiding deception of any sort is something better than adherence to the strict letter of the law.

But as some folks keep reminding us, by their fruit shall ye know them.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

If we are trying to avoid not only evil, but the very appearance of evil, we will act for ourselves and not be acted upon.” (Ensign, November 1995, page 47.)
Abstain from all appearance of evil.” (1 Thessalonians 5: 22
“But before ye seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God.

“And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them … for the intent to do good—to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted.” - Greed, Selfishness, and Overindulgence, By Elder Joe J. Christensen Of the Presidency of the Seventy
So on and so forth, but we all know they’ll just say whatever to justify their wealth hoarding and wealth hiding.
"We expect to see the day when we will not have to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose... because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for... the kingdom of God."- Joseph F Smith, 1907 General Conference
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Rivendale
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by Rivendale »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:05 am
If we are trying to avoid not only evil, but the very appearance of evil, we will act for ourselves and not be acted upon.” (Ensign, November 1995, page 47.)
Abstain from all appearance of evil.” (1 Thessalonians 5: 22
“But before ye seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God.

“And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them … for the intent to do good—to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted.” - Greed, Selfishness, and Overindulgence, By Elder Joe J. Christensen Of the Presidency of the Seventy
So on and so forth, but we all know they’ll just say whatever to justify their wealth hoarding and wealth hiding.
"We expect to see the day when we will not have to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose... because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for... the kingdom of God."- Joseph F Smith, 1907 General Conference
Those Roman Colosseums might be some kind of omen?
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Kishkumen
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by Kishkumen »

As Dr. Hugh Nibley used to say, “More than enough is too much.”
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
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malkie
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by malkie »

Kishkumen wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:10 am
As Dr. Hugh Nibley used to say, “More than enough is too much.”
An old gentleman I knew in Scotland used to talk about the ideal of "an elegant sufficiency" - a quaint but very evocative expression.
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IHAQ
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by IHAQ »

When are the disciplinary councils being held for the First Presidency, Presiding Bishopric and Ensign Peak personnel involved in bringing the good name of the Church into disrepute through their illegal use of clone shell companies?

What else are they doing that hasn't yet been brought to light?

Will the Church auditing department, that has been shown to be nothing more than a blind rubber stamp doing whatever they are told to sign off on, be replaced with an independent and external auditor to give the members the confidence they need in leaders that have shown they cannot be trusted to do the right thing if they think no one is watching?
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by IHAQ »

DanielPeterson
11 hours ago
Please note, though, that neither the Church nor Ensign Peak Advisors conceded any of the SEC's charges.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... qus_thread

Of course they did - they paid the fine which is an admission of culpability.

Billy Shears tries to educate the proprietor...
Have you read the actual SEC cease and desist order? It explains in detail how the Church wasn’t making a good faith effort to comply with the law. Rather, they came up with and implemented a complicated and fundamentally dishonest scheme to mislead the SEC and the public about its assets.

Yes, the First Presidency and Presiding Bishopric are good, honest men. But their desire to hide knowledge of the Church’s assets from the membership and the public was so great they failed to live up to their own values in this case.

That is the reason Ensign Peak got one fine, and the Church itself got another fine.
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malkie
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Re: Church comments on SEC settlement

Post by malkie »

IHAQ wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:42 pm
DanielPeterson
11 hours ago
Please note, though, that neither the Church nor Ensign Peak Advisors conceded any of the SEC's charges.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... qus_thread

Of course they did - they paid the fine which is an admission of culpability.
Technically (I gather - IANAL), they neither admitted nor denied culpability - these were terms of settlement.

OTOH, they did, in effect, say to the SEC: "You can make all of these allegations about us in public, and fine us, and we accept that we are never allowed to deny the allegations."
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