The Unreasonableness of Atheism

[_Some Schmo]

That isn't true. The fact is a theist by definition is someone who, at the very least, contemplates our existence. That's within the immediate realm of philosophy. Any theist who engages in any sort of systematic theology, is already delving into philosophy, which probably explains why some of the greatest philosophers were Christian theologians. There is nothing about atheism that encourages an atheist to contemplate anything of the sort.

Wow.

I've read some incredibly stupid stuff come out of your keyboard, but this has to be in the top five all time stupid things you've posted.

A theist, by definition, is not necessarily someone who contemplates our existence. It's someone who believes in a deity. That's it. And it's been my experience that there are a ton of theists (certainly not all, but a lot) that couldn't care less about the details of our existence, so much so that I suspect they fall back on the "god did it" idea specifically so that they don't have to think about it. And just because they may engage in systematic theology does not automatically engage them in philosophical thought. Again, many choose theology out of habit, because that's what they were raised on, and have no interest in thinking this stuff through for themselves.

Human nature is what causes people to contemplate their own existence; it's being conscious that may do it.

If anything, believing there's no god causes a person to be more inclined to consider deeply the nature of our existence, because there are no shortcut answers to it, like "god did it" which doesn't explain a damn thing.

All I can say is that thinking about how this all came to be is something in the background of my mind all the time. It's why I venture into boards like this. The reason I don't engage in philosophical discussions with the likes of you, Kevin, is that your understanding of things is generally superficial and to me, inconsequential. You misconstrue, obfuscate, quote out of context, conflate, and willfully misunderstand whenever it suits you. What makes you even more unworthy of real discussion is you come off sounding like you think you know what you're talking about when you don't seem to have a clue. Parroting crap you've read (and demonstrably misunderstood, no less) doesn't count for knowledge, AFAIC.

[_Sam Harris]

That really wasn't what I was getting at. A poster (I can't even recall which one at this point) insinuated that because an atheist doesn't subscribe to the notion of a god that they would all lead selfish lives. As you pointed out, even believers act "morally" even when god is removed from the equation. As do non-believers.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. Unfortunately there are many theists out there who cannot imagine life without having a "higher authority" call them into obedience. It's really kind of sad, because all it does is show their weakness. You don't need someone or something else to tell you to be a good person, that good already exists within you, all you have to do is recognize it. At least that's what I believe. To me, seeing good inherent in one's self and another has nothing to do with theism at all...

Am I the choir or are you?

I sang in the choir for several years in school. I miss it. :-) As far as seeing good in one's self, it really wasn't church that taught me that. I was alone when that lesson hit home. Sure, my inspiration came from a spiritual source, but all he was doing was relaying common sense backed by scripture. The truth he told would have still been the truth without the Bible verses.

I have to agree with Schmo, that many atheists contemplate our existence. I don't think atheism is as simple as "there is no God and there is nothing when we die". Saying that you do not believe in a higher being with super-human powers, be it in cloud or solid form doesn't mean that you don't think about "what's out there and what comes next". I don't believe that all atheists are that negative. I don't completely understand the atheist position, but I think that's because of the crossfire between Christianity and Atheism in this country, there's too much back and forth and too much emotion. So far, Beastie has given me the most insight into life as an atheist. I am appreciative of that.

In other discussions on other boards, I have seen, when the subject of the atheist worldview comes up, those who get angry and sling insults (few), and those who camly discuss and compare viewpoints, build bridges.

[_Mad Viking]

That really wasn't what I was getting at. A poster (I can't even recall which one at this point) insinuated that because an atheist doesn't subscribe to the notion of a god that they would all lead selfish lives. As you pointed out, even believers act "morally" even when god is removed from the equation. As do non-believers.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. Unfortunately there are many theists out there who cannot imagine life without having a "higher authority" call them into obedience. It's really kind of sad, because all it does is show their weakness. You don't need someone or something else to tell you to be a good person, that good already exists within you, all you have to do is recognize it. At least that's what I believe. To me, seeing good inherent in one's self and another has nothing to do with theism at all...

Am I the choir or are you?

I sang in the choir for several years in school. I miss it. :-) As far as seeing good in one's self, it really wasn't church that taught me that. I was alone when that lesson hit home. Sure, my inspiration came from a spiritual source, but all he was doing was relaying common sense backed by scripture. The truth he told would have still been the truth without the Bible verses.

I have to agree with Schmo, that many atheists contemplate our existence. I don't think atheism is as simple as "there is no God and there is nothing when we die". Saying that you do not believe in a higher being with super-human powers, be it in cloud or solid form doesn't mean that you don't think about "what's out there and what comes next". I don't believe that all atheists are that negative. I don't completely understand the atheist position, but I think that's because of the crossfire between Christianity and Atheism in this country, there's too much back and forth and too much emotion. So far, Beastie has given me the most insight into life as an atheist. I am appreciative of that.

In other discussions on other boards, I have seen, when the subject of the atheist worldview comes up, those who get angry and sling insults (few), and those who camly discuss and compare viewpoints, build bridges.

I don't call myself an atheist, because the contemporary definition seems fairly meaningless to me.

[_Sam Harris]

LOL, well if it makes you feel better, I don't know what the hell to call myself anymore.

[_Some Schmo]

LOL, well if it makes you feel better, I don't know what the hell to call myself anymore.

I would call you thoughtful and contemplative.

People get too caught up in labels, in my opinion. It's as though people think they can explain themselves and others by assigning labels which are limiting and wholly unsatisfactory, and it leads to all kinds of bigotry. I'd rather be defined by what I do and the kind of person I am than what my ideas and beliefs happen to be at any given time.

[_Sam Harris]

Aww, thanks Schmo. :-)

It's nice to be seen as thoughtful when I'm not sure that my cranium works much these days. :-)

I hate labels. I remember as a child being "taught" about race, and learning that though I was black, I had white and native american ancestors. When I questioned my mom, she couldn't really explain why I had to go under the label of "just black".

Tiger had the right idea...Calablinasian...can't spell it right. I just call myself confused!