Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

[_Shulem]

the

You, zerinus, smell like fresh fruits of apostasy. The General Authorities care not for your interpretation of the Doctrine & Covenants. Your posts have the sweet smell of apostasy. I love it.

Welcome to the club, boy.

[_SteelHead]

You wholly subjective, non demonstrable belief when augmented with $3.00 will buy you 2 items from the value menu.

Which is another way of saying your belief is worthless.

Your priesthood is powerless, your god impotent, and your holy ghost a figment of your imagination.

[_zerinus]

the

You, zerinus, smell like fresh fruits of apostasy. The General Authorities care not for your interpretation of the Doctrine & Covenants. Your posts have the sweet smell of apostasy. I love it.

Welcome to the club, boy.

You have nothing else to say, do you.

[_Shulem]

You have nothing else to say, do you.

There really isn't much more that can be said. You're locked up in illogical thinking. Mormon teachings have brainwashed you into thinking that fact and fiction are one in the same. You mingle the concepts of faith and knowledge together as if it's the same when in reality they are not. You say you "know" the Book of Mormon is true while in fact you do not know. You may believe it based on faith and therefore you think the Book of Mormon is true -- but knowing is of a whole class completely separate from faith. It is dangerous how the Mormon cult brainwashes its members into believing and professing that knowledge and faith are one in the same.

You know the sun is coming up tomorrow because of logical reasoning and experience with seeing and knowing. It's a mathematical certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow as it has for billions of years. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. It's not a belief or merely something you and I think or hope for. However, your beliefs and faith in the Book of Mormon do not share the characteristics of sure knowledge of that of the sun, rising, every single day.

You zerinus, like Joseph Smith, are a liar. Your religion is a lie. It's as as simple as that.

[_Shulem]

zerinus,

Take a moment to understand the difference between faith and knowledge. A believer must answer the question:

1. The Book of Abraham is true
[ ] Faith
[ ] Knowledge

2. The sun will rise tomorrow
[ ] Faith
[ ] Knowledge

Belief in the Book of Abraham is based on faith and faith alone. There is no knowledge or certainty about it. Many people have lost faith in the Book of Abraham and no longer believe it is true. in comparison, who in their right mind ever denied that the sun would rise the next day. No one ever loses the belief (really it's knowledge) that the sun will rise on the next day. It's a 100% certainty and everyone believes it. There are no apostates from the sun-rising belief. But there are plenty of Book of Abraham apostates because their belief never was settled on knowledge and certainty -- just faith.

That's all you really have, zerinus, mere faith -- faith in something that is wrong. You have been deceived and you continue to allow yourself to be deceived when you should know better. Wake up! You are sleeping.

[_Shulem]

This thread is about probabilities. So, let’s get back to it, shall we, zerinus?

Which of the following is most probable?

[ ] The Explanations of the Facsimiles are correct and Egyptologists are wrong
[ ] The sun will rise tomorrow

Which of the following is a believer most likely to deny?

[ ] The Explanations of the Facsimiles are correct and Egyptologists are wrong
[ ] The sun will rise tomorrow

A brainwashed Mormon may try and conclude that their belief and knowledge of Joseph Smith’s Explanations are just as strong as their belief that the sun will rise on the next day. But this is just a power play in effort to assure themselves and convince others.

It is far more probable that a believer will deny the Explanations of the Facsimiles rather than deny the rising of the sun. In fact, we see it all the time. It’s apostasy from religion, things that are grounded in faith – things which can be disproved, such as the Explanations of the Facsimiles. Furthermore, it has been proven that the sun will rise tomorrow. That's a fact.

[_Shulem]

Well here is the first problem. You are confusing the word fact, and the word belief.

Wrong! Knowledge gained by the power of the Holy Ghost is a fact as much as (if not more than) knowledge gained by any other means.

Many Mormons are walking away from their faith and lose their testimonies which your GHOST gave them. How so? It's easy to do! But getting knowledge from science and fact is another story! No one walks away from their knowledge that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. Not a single soul. Everyone knows it. You, me, and the boy next door. That knowledge is far more powerful and convincing than your silly little GHOST you've imagined in your mind.

[_zerinus]

There really isn't much more that can be said. You're locked up in illogical thinking. Mormon teachings have brainwashed you into thinking that fact and fiction are one in the same. You mingle the concepts of faith and knowledge together as if it's the same when in reality they are not. You say you "know" the Book of Mormon is true while in fact you do not know.

Wrong! I do know. I know with absolute certainty that the Book of Mormon is true and of God.

You may believe it based on faith and therefore you think the Book of Mormon is true -- but knowing is of a whole class completely separate from faith. It is dangerous how the Mormon cult brainwashes its members into believing and professing that knowledge and faith are one in the same.

You can have all the doubts about anything you want. None of that alters the fact for me that I know for certain that the Book of Mormon is true and of God. For me it is knowledge, it is certainty, not just faith.

You know the sun is coming up tomorrow because of logical reasoning and experience with seeing and knowing. It's a mathematical certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow as it has for billions of years. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. It's not a belief or merely something you and I think or hope for.

Wrong again! You don't know for sure that the sun will rise tomorrow. There is no "mathematical certainty" about it. All suns will die eventually, and there is no guarantee that it will not be our sun's turn tomorrow. There is a very strong probability that the sum will rise tomorrow, but it is not a certainty—at least for you it isn't. We have other assurances that the sun will definitely rise tomorrow which you don't have; but that is beside the point. You have faith that the sum will rise tomorrow. It is a well-founded hope, an expectation, but not certainty.

However, your beliefs and faith in the Book of Mormon do not share the characteristics of sure knowledge of that of the sun, rising, every single day.

My belief in the Book of Mormon is more certain than your expectation that the sun will rise tomorrow.

You zerinus, like Joseph Smith, are a liar. Your religion is a lie. It's as as simple as that.

The Book of Mormon is true, Joseph Smith was a prophet, and he restored God's true Church on earth. No doubts about it. There is more certainty about that than the sum will rise tomorrow.

[_Shulem]

Wrong! I do know. I know with absolute certainty that the Book of Mormon is true and of God.

As a former apologist I used to say pretty much the exact same thing. I thought I knew with absolute surety that the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham were true. There was nothing that was going to take that knowledge that was given me from the GHOST.

But, as we can see, the GHOST really isn't that strong and evaporates when science and real data starts to pour into an open mind. Hence, I deny the GHOST and the belief that I once had in professing to myself and others that I knew the Book of Mormon is true. I was wrong.

I invite you to also deny your Mormon testimony and embrace the truth. Join me and countless others in commanding the GHOST to depart. I KNOW you CAN do that. If I can do it, so can you.

[_zerinus]

Belief in the Book of Abraham is based on faith and faith alone. There is no knowledge or certainty about it.

Not true! For those who have a witness of the Spirit, it is certainty, it is knowledge.

Many people have lost faith in the Book of Abraham and no longer believe it is true.

That is their problem. Why is their problem my problem?

in comparison, who in their right mind ever denied that the sun would rise the next day. No one ever loses the belief (really it's knowledge) that the sun will rise on the next day. It's a 100% certainty and everyone believes it. There are no apostates from the sun-rising belief. But there are plenty of Book of Abraham apostates because their belief never was settled on knowledge and certainty -- just faith.

See above.

That's all you really have, zerinus, mere faith -- faith in something that is wrong. You have been deceived and you continue to allow yourself to be deceived when you should know better. Wake up! You are sleeping.

Wrong again! Testimony of the Holy Ghost is knowledge, it is certainty, it is more than faith.