THE JERSEY GIRL MEGATHREAD

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_Ceeboo
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Re: THE JERSEY GIRL MEGATHREAD

Post by _Ceeboo »

Hey Cam
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
The fact that Liz and A.I. are defending her in an attempt to get her posting privileges back are silly.


"An attempt to get her posting priviledges back"? :confused:
Really?

This board is better off without that woman.


I would disagree. :smile:

Peace,
Ceeboo
_Stormy Waters

Re: THE JERSEY GIRL MEGATHREAD

Post by _Stormy Waters »

Image
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: THE JERSEY GIRL MEGATHREAD

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Ceeboo wrote:I would disagree. :smile:

Peace,
Ceeboo


Oh, c'mon. What else would be the point? Is there going to be some sort of historical archive exonerating her posting behavior? ;)

- VRDRC

[img] Apparently I can't post a picture of a dead horse being beaten. Damn you technology.
[/img]
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_hobo1512
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Re: THE JERSEY GIRL MEGATHREAD

Post by _hobo1512 »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Ceeboo wrote:I would disagree. :smile:

Peace,
Ceeboo


Oh, c'mon. What else would be the point? Is there going to be some sort of historical archive exonerating her posting behavior? ;)

- VRDRC

[img] Apparently I can't post a picture of a dead horse being beaten. Damn you technology.
[/img]

In one of Liz's posts (that I addressed), she stated that she was going to let it drop, unless she could respond to it herself. Ulterior motive......yes, I believe that was her intention all the time, and even stated it before Liz posted that for her.
_marg
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Re: THE JERSEY GIRL MEGATHREAD

Post by _marg »

Alter Idem wrote:In answer to a query in Marg's recent post;

Jersey Girl did not act as if she was truly concerned about her or her family's well being. If she was truly concerned it would have been in her best interest to back off from the discussion and encourage others to do so.


Jersey Girl said this:

I DID! That is EXACTLY what I did and THAT'S EXACTLY when Darrick turned his sights on me!

Search on the phrase "admin chips fall where they may"

That phrase will show up in my exchanges with Darrick and on the BLOODY STATEMENT THAT I SENT TO SHADES WHICH IS POSTED ON THE VERY THREAD YOU FOLKS ARE POSTING AWAY ON.


I went back and reviewed all the posts in question (the threads back then). by the way at the time and last night I only found one post in which Darrick mentions MCB's name and then says "who is MCB?..I never at the time nor can I find multiple times that he does this. In addition, Darrick never really turned his sights on Jersey Girl. That post she refers to follows a post of hers but he was responding to Bond's posts. It's a tenuous assumption that he turned his sights on her.

The problem I have with Jersey Girl is her not taking any responsibility for why things went awry. Issuing the ultimatum ..then contacting the web host seems motivated to me mainly to create drama, than a concern for herself and family. Had she acknowledged via Liz on this thread that she over-reacted too hastily with issuing the ultimatum and then by immediately following that threat with contacting the web host..but did so in the emotional heat of the moment ...I'd be sympathetic. But in this thread she didn't do that.

Then we have, in a pm to LDST she comments near the end of their discussion when she knows all hell was breaking loose on the board.."this board should be fun". So it appears it's a bit of a game to her at the time. And then there is her post via Liz in which she says:

Contrary to what some have assumed, I was not afraid of Darrick's threats to me. I was pissed as hell. This guy is a proven in real life stalker of DCP. He has the wherewithal to locate people (and yes, I'll admit that DCP is a visible presence around BYU which makes it easier to locate him versus locating me), put that together with obvious obsession and mental illness, and then the package becomes something I don't want to see show up on my property.

My family has had enough drama in the past year and a half and I'll be damned if some deranged internet lunatic is going to show up on my property and enter into yet another family drama.

My thought was that if Darrick had remained on the board his obsessions could have escalated to the point where he had the potential to act out in real life. I figured that if the mod team showed no signs of taking it seriously, that I'd take a shot at the web host to see if they could pull the plug on this guy if his conduct were deemed a violation of the Terms of Use or Acceptable
Use Policy.


That's all well and dandy that she's concerned Darrick may act out, but there was no necessity for the ultimatum to EA of 15 min. , no necessity to try to get the board immediately shut down via contacting the web host. And if she truly really thought the web host might involve itself legally with the board and that create a lot of problems for Mav or Shades..then why the huge rush of minutes, into proceeding with it.

That's the way I see it Alter Idem. Before Jersey Girl posted via Liz, I had sympathy for her. I don't think she had any intentions of suing...still don't. But to some extent she's responsible for some of the drama which went on. She carried on with Darrick ..essentially goading him. Then the next day issued a 15 min ultimatum..which wasn't necessary. Following through on that ultimatum when in her words she indicates she thought it would Mav or the Shades significant problems..even legally..again not necessary. Now if she were to acknowledge she over-reacted, handled things poorly and take some of the responsibility ...I'd have some sympathy. Things didn't need to go the way they did, she shouldn't really have been perma banned...however she says she doesn't care about that.
_Alter Idem
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Re: THE JERSEY GIRL MEGATHREAD

Post by _Alter Idem »

beastie wrote:
Alter Idem wrote:
I really don't know how this information affects the discussion. Shades and the other mods admit they spent a long time hashing it out. I would think his willingness to wait to hash it out would weigh in his favor.

Please see MY response to Shades on this point.
A.I., if you've responded to this and I missed it, I apologize and would appreciate being pointed to your response.

It's been made clear in Jersey Girl's posts and PMs to LDStoronto that she believed Darrick was engaged in criminal activity. Her research showed that dreamhost was not liable for that criminal activity but Mav, and probably Shades and EA, were.

I don't understand how you can see that information and not only jump to the conclusion that Jersey Girl clearly never threatened to involve the law, in terms of courts and lawyers, but then insist that someone (Shades) who sees it otherwise is delusional and hiding something.

Help me out here. Throw me a bone. As I said before, I spent hours reading and rereading all the posts in question when I first found out about this all. (I wasn't around when it went down.) I would have drawn the same conclusion that Shades and EA did.


This whole mess started because someone put words in Jersey Girl's mouth, thinking she wanted to sue Shades. Saying she thought they were guilty of 'criminal activity', I don't know. I think she thought they were liable for protecting their posters from stalkers. Is that a ridiculous assumption? She believed Darrick wanted to fish out information about her. That is what she wanted stopped. She believed that the best way to stop Darrick from doing this was to get him removed from the board.

If the mods ignored her concerns over a possible stalker, what should she have done? If you thought someone was attempting to stalk you, what would you do? You don't need to answer this, I just am not sure what else she was supposed to do. Some said she should just turn off her computer, but that wouldn't have stopped Darrick. If he'd wanted to get her information, there were enough posters on the board who don't like her who may have helped him put together enough clues to figure it out. This was a real concern, especially because Darrick had a known history.

You say that Jersey Girl was left waiting too long. As I understand it, the first mod on the scene was EA, and he explained the timeline here:

You know, I was a mod on ZLMB, and it was one awful, thankless job. I had a real life to attend to. Neither I nor the other mods were online, on-call, 24/7. How can you fault them for this delay when, in the first place, no mod was even online for 12 hours after it went down? So it was only a few more hours until Harmony stepped in.

Seriously, what was going to happen in those few hours that was going to make a huge difference in the situation? It's not like any poster on this board was going to jump up and say, Hey, Yeah, Darrick, I know Jersey Girl and MCB's real life information, and here it is! No problem, dude! No one on this board was going to provide that information. Letting him stay on the board a couple of hours more made absolutely no difference. If he were seriously ferreting out information about posters, he would have already done so, and could continue to do so, even banned from the board. And, frankly, he was acting so nutty I doubt he was in a state of mind to perform such a concentrated task in the first place.

Part of me thinks this comes down to a fundamental difference of opinions in how this board should be run. Some posters believe Shades's libertarian philosophy is flawed, and invites these sort of problems. I tend to agree. But I'm willing to accept that this is his board, he runs it as he sees fit, and if it doesn't suit me, it's my responsibility to stop participating and go elsewhere or nowhere. No one is chained to the keyboard. No one forced Jersey Girl to continue to banter with someone who was clearly going off the deep end. I know it's hard to stop once you've really engaged, but if you don't stop when things are clearly going south in a hurry, then you do bear some responsibility for the end result. You want Shades to accept responsibility for letting Darrick participate in the first place. How about asking Jersey Girl to accept some responsibility for not only continuing to engage someone who was clearly off his nut and barely coherent, and then using language that did, indeed, despite your denials, strongly indicate she thought criminal activity was occurring and that admin and mods would be responsible for that in some sort of "legal fight"????

I consider myself Jersey Girl's friend. I did then and still do. But I want to be fair to everyone in this situation, and I don't think you're being fair to Shades and EA.


If you read EA's comments, he was annoyed with her and dug in his heels. If anyone wants to talk about someone 'goading' another, I'd say EA 'goaded' Jersey Girl by his indifference to her demands. He did NOTHING to diffuse the situation.

I have cut EA some slack because of Shade's insistence that he be the only one to take action against Darrick, but the fact is, his actions aggravated a tense situation.


I'd like to end this but if you have a burning question, I'll answer it.
Every man is a moon and has a [dark] side which he turns toward nobody; you have to slip around behind if you want to see it. ---Mark Twain
_Alter Idem
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Re: THE JERSEY GIRL MEGATHREAD

Post by _Alter Idem »

marg wrote:I went back and reviewed all the posts in question (the threads back then). by the way at the time and last night I only found one post in which Darrick mentions MCB's name and then says "who is MCB?..I never at the time nor can I find multiple times that he does this. In addition, Darrick never really turned his sights on Jersey Girl. That post she refers to follows a post of hers but he was responding to Bond's posts. It's a tenuous assumption that he turned his sights on her.

The problem I have with Jersey Girl is her not taking any responsibility for why things went awry. Issuing the ultimatum ..then contacting the web host seems motivated to me mainly to create drama, than a concern for herself and family. Had she acknowledged via Liz on this thread that she over-reacted too hastily with issuing the ultimatum and then by immediately following that threat with contacting the web host..but did so in the emotional heat of the moment ...I'd be sympathetic. But in this thread she didn't do that.

Then we have, in a pm to LDST she comments near the end of their discussion when she knows all hell was breaking loose on the board.."this board should be fun". So it appears it's a bit of a game to her at the time. And then there is her post via Liz in which she says:

Contrary to what some have assumed, I was not afraid of Darrick's threats to me. I was pissed as hell. This guy is a proven in real life stalker of DCP. He has the wherewithal to locate people (and yes, I'll admit that DCP is a visible presence around BYU which makes it easier to locate him versus locating me), put that together with obvious obsession and mental illness, and then the package becomes something I don't want to see show up on my property.

My family has had enough drama in the past year and a half and I'll be damned if some deranged internet lunatic is going to show up on my property and enter into yet another family drama.

My thought was that if Darrick had remained on the board his obsessions could have escalated to the point where he had the potential to act out in real life. I figured that if the mod team showed no signs of taking it seriously, that I'd take a shot at the web host to see if they could pull the plug on this guy if his conduct were deemed a violation of the Terms of Use or Acceptable
Use Policy.


That's all well and dandy that she's concerned Darrick may act out, but there was no necessity for the ultimatum to EA of 15 min. , no necessity to try to get the board immediately shut down via contacting the web host. And if she truly really thought the web host might involve itself legally with the board and that create a lot of problems for Mav or Shades..then why the huge rush of minutes, into proceeding with it.

That's the way I see it Alter Idem. Before Jersey Girl posted via Liz, I had sympathy for her. I don't think she had any intentions of suing...still don't. But to some extent she's responsible for some of the drama which went on. She carried on with Darrick ..essentially goading him. Then the next day issued a 15 min ultimatum..which wasn't necessary. Following through on that ultimatum when in her words she indicates she thought it would Mav or the Shades significant problems..even legally..again not necessary. Now if she were to acknowledge she over-reacted, handled things poorly and take some of the responsibility ...I'd have some sympathy. Things didn't need to go the way they did, she shouldn't really have been perma banned...however she says she doesn't care about that.


I don't think anyone has denied that she isn't responsible for some of the drama--But whether or not you think her concerns over Darrick are valid, SHE has said that she was upset when Darrick was threatening others and even more upset when he turned his sights on her. One reason I limit my time on boards these days is exactly for concerns to my real life. Maybe that is why I have more sympathy for Jersey Girl in this situation. In contrast, maybe this has never been something you have had to worry about.

As I mentioned to Beastie, the 15 minute ultimatum was clearly in response to EA's non-responsiveness on this. Consider that her's and other's calls for something to be done had gone unheeded for 12 hours--and then, to add fuel to the fire, when a moderator does respond, he offers no help whatsoever. This is fact. You can read his responses. We now know that it was because he couldn't do anything about it, but he waited quite a while before even admitting this.
And, in truth, he NEVER did DO ANYTHING. It took another mod to come in (Harmony) who wasn't aware she was not supposed to ban Darrick(only Shades could), to do it. Through all this Shades has never accepted any responsibility for his part in this with this foolish policy and the fact that this one decision on his part brought on what happened.

Once again, I'll end this unless you have a question which must be answered.

The point of my posting here was to challenge Shade's version of what happened and--thanks to Shades--I was able to do that--It's on record. Mine and Liz's efforts were NOT to get Jersey Girl reinstated. Shades runs this board, he can ban whomever he chooses and JerseyGirl doesn't want to be reinstated.
Every man is a moon and has a [dark] side which he turns toward nobody; you have to slip around behind if you want to see it. ---Mark Twain
_beastie
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Re: THE JERSEY GIRL MEGATHREAD

Post by _beastie »

Alter Idem wrote:
If you read EA's comments, he was annoyed with her and dug in his heels. If anyone wants to talk about someone 'goading' another, I'd say EA 'goaded' Jersey Girl by his indifference to her demands. He did NOTHING to diffuse the situation.

I have cut EA some slack because of Shades's insistence that he be the only one to take action against Darrick, but the fact is, his actions aggravated a tense situation.


I'd like to end this but if you have a burning question, I'll answer it.


I don't have any other questions. In regards to EA, as I mentioned before, I have quite a bit of sympathy for how difficult and frustrating a moderator's job can be. No moderator had been online for the first 12 hours during the exchange. He logged on that morning, facing, I'm sure, his own "real life" demands as well, only to be faced with numerous complaints and long threads to read through to try and get to the bottom of the complaints. He had already indicated support for banning Darrick, but had told Shades he'd let him make the final call. He said he saw no additional danger in waiting, and I have to agree with him.

Now, did he get irritated by Jersey Girl's ultimatum? Probably. Do I blame him for that? Not particularly. Did he make her wait due to that irritation? I doubt it.

In the end, this was an unfortunate situation with a sad ending. But I don't think it's worth getting worked up over again. Jersey Girl is happy where she is, and doesn't want to come back. As I said earlier, Shade's libertarian method of running the board does have its costs, and we all have to decide whether or not it's worth it. I think she had mixed feelings about that, anyway.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

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_marg
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Re: THE JERSEY GIRL MEGATHREAD

Post by _marg »

Alter Idem,


Unless you wish to discuss this further I won't respond in detail to your post. I'll only add that if Jersey Girl's primary concern is with regards to being perceived that she would sue...I do believe she never would have nor intended to sue Shades or any mod.
_sock puppet
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Re: THE JERSEY GIRL MEGATHREAD

Post by _sock puppet »

Please people, let Alter Idem have the last post and let's be done with this.
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