Eric.

[_Ray A]

I think Paul is thinking of that old saying: Those who can, do. Those who can't, ridicule.

Trust a Mormon to make an intelligent comment.

Thank God I didn't bring my children up in this mind****, and heaven help those who are.

[_asbestosman]

Look, everyone (if anyone) who has fallen for Daniel Peterson's tricks has already fallen for them and isn't changing his mind. Everyone else who has seen the light and know what a malicious, seething cauldron of hate he is aren't going to fall for his tricks no matter how much more he tries. What is it that any side is trying to accomplish at this point?

[_asbestosman]

I think Paul is thinking of that old saying: Those who can, do. Those who can't, ridicule.

Trust a Mormon to make an intelligent comment.

I didn't realize that my comment would be so offensive.

What do you want from me, Ray? I refuse to get in the middle of a family's affairs. I've already admitted that I don't think much of families basically disowning children when those children make a different decision on faith--it happened the other way around for my mother when as an adult child she joined Mormonism.

That is in no way a judgment on Eric or his family since I don't know what happened and I don't want to know since it is their private affair.

[_Paul Osborne]

I think Paul is thinking of that old saying: Those who can, do. Those who can't, ridicule.

I don't know what this means. I googled the quote and there are a grand total of two cases in which this quote is used. One of them is on a message board where they are talking about masturbation including participants such as dittyboppy, Giant_Scrotum, and rocket pants.

The other example is on a message board where they talk about cars.

Paul O

[_Paul Osborne]

Miss Taken,

There is nothing wrong with being a school teacher. My x-wife, whom I still love, is also a school teacher. She teaches special education. She has been voted teacher of the year twice. I’ve met lots of teachers over the years and found them to be dedicated people but some of them tend to complain and get a little lazy because of the system and the many restraints placed on teachers.

Now, the world of academia at universities is a strange place. Is it the real world? I don’t think so. But that’s just my opinion.

Paul O

[_AlmaBound]

I value your continuing contributions as a nevermo, but there are some things you will never be able to fully understand unless you were a Mormon. If I studied Islam for 40 years, I'd still never understand what it's actually like to be a Muslim, growing up in a Muslim culture, and worst of all, being a dissenter from that religion. You, for example, will probably never, ever, understand why Eric feels the way he does.

Technically, I suppose this is true, at least within the specific confines of being rejected because of a dissenting point of view over the specific claims of the LDS Church itself, and by origin, Joseph Smith.

However, for me at least, being subject to the sort of treatment described below from a believer to a dissenter, isn't unique to Mormonism:

William Schryver wrote:
Have I mentioned lately that you are one of the ugliest people I have ever encountered in cyberspace? And, as difficult as it is to believe, you're getting worse with each passing month. Your poor mother must look down on what you've become with an all-consuming shame.

It is statements and treatment like this that convince me to not join this Church.

However, I think there can be a shared sense of abandonment from any sort of group, particularly if family is involved and a person is shunned, and even treated as described above by their family, because of that dissent. Even as a never-Mo, I can relate to this, if not specifically to knowing what it is like to be a Mormon.

I think it is sad that there is not more compassion and concern over the eternal fate of those who dissent, especially towards those who eventually apostacize.

But then, since only a few are consigned to Outer Darkness, compassion might not be necessary.

[_harmony]

William Schryver wrote:
Have I mentioned lately that you are one of the ugliest people I have ever encountered in cyberspace? And, as difficult as it is to believe, you're getting worse with each passing month. Your poor mother must look down on what you've become with an all-consuming shame.

It is statements and treatment like this that convince me to not join this Church.

However, I think there can be a shared sense of abandonment from any sort of group, particularly if family is involved and a person is shunned, and even treated as described above by their family, because of that dissent. Even as a never-Mo, I can relate to this, if not specifically to knowing what it is like to be a Mormon.

I think it is sad that there is not more compassion and concern over the eternal fate of those who dissent, especially towards those who eventually apostacize.

But then, since only a few are consigned to Outer Darkness, compassion might not be necessary.

Don't judge all Mormons by Will's example. It's a manifestation of Will's inability to convince his spiritual upline that he's leadership material that brings out this sort of nastiness. Jealousy, pure and simple, has led to this public display of spite to one he perceives as of less worth than himself. Pity him and then forgive him, for pity is all he truly deserves. Every time he attends the temple, I could be sitting across the aisle from him. That fact alone is enough to bring a lesser man to his knees in supplication, begging God to hear his petition. Alas, for Will, that fact results in excessive hubris and a burning desire to exercise unrighteous dominion... once again proving the discernment of his leaders. They save him from himself, for surely he would be kissing his priesthood good-bye, were he to actually get the chance to use it as he desires.

The poor man is frustrated in his ambitions and his character only allows him to show the ugliness in his heart to those he considers his inferiors. Poor Will. Vanquished by the overt manifestation of his own character.

[_AlmaBound]

Don't judge all Mormons by Will's example. It's a manifestation of Will's inability to convince his spiritual upline that he's leadership material.

You're probably right about not judging all Mormons by this behavior, though I have seen some responses on these message boards that are generally in line with this way of thinking.

What I wonder is if this type of behaviour isn't a direct result of the way the system has been set up.

Another thing I wonder about is if this is the way it goes in the Church meetings - are Will and others like this in "real life" towards people in his ward?

Maybe the topic of another thread, if I could muster enough interest in really thinking about it.

[_asbestosman]

I think Paul is thinking of that old saying: Those who can, do. Those who can't, ridicule.

I don't know what this means.

It's a play on the saying, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."

I thought by using the word "ridicule" that nobody would take what I said too seriously since if I meant it seriously it would make my statement a form of ridicule and thus condemn me.

I was just interjecting a bit of light-hearted humor to deflect what I considered to be a silly back-and forth about teachers.

[_Ray A]

In Memory of Eric, board outcast:

Chris Buttars and the Mormon Gulag: Staff Retaliate.

Outcast, rebel, and revolutionary. Someone who stood up for his convictions, in spite of overwhelming opposition from smaller minds.

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson.