Pa Pa wrote:Dwight Frye wrote:I started out liking Pa Pa. Tried to, anyway. But this... wow. Total douche nozzle.
Why did you start out trying. Just pass judgment like most. I am used to being hated.
If that is the case, maybe you should ask yourself why? Could it be that you sling insults in ignorance?
I found your comments to be so outrageously foul, that I spent time writing a long response to them. The response I posted was not written in anger. My original response which
was written in anger, charted an oceanic pool of vomit made entirely out of the astonishingly vicious smears that are the bread and butter of mopologetics (which, is not the same thing as Mormonism itself). I set that aside, however, in order to describe the ways in which my life has been blessed, yes
blessed, by my experiences with this message board.
I doubt you saw it. I doubt you saw it, because I don't think you take time to read much of the discussion here, nor do I think you really read, in any meaningful sense of the term, the posts you do "read." I think this is part of "the problem:" the problem of the "judgment" and "hate" you think you are the constant recipient of. People react in hostility to you because you enter into discussion with a Book of Mormon-sized chip on your shoulder expecting to preach to a crowd of moral degenerates. And because of this you not only get insulted in return, but worse, much worse, you miss the opportunity for great beauty, compassion and revelation. You miss humanity itself.
You can find my response, Of Vomit and Honey: Why I Post at MDB
here, if you want to read through the exchange it generated (an exchange in which you were completely absent, once again missing possibility and opportunity).
Or you can simply read my original post which I will now repost:
___________________________
pa pa wrote:
Someone profits.
Blixa wrote:
That's right! We all do! For example, I've gotten some great leads and ideas for my academic work (conference papers, articles and book projects) and made great friends, many of whom I've met in real life, and many I hope to.
pa pa wrote:
At this vomit pool?
In the stickied thread at the top of the terrestrial forum, pa pa recently attempted to make a feeble joke about Dr. Shades financially profiting from this site. I tried to explain his mistake and when that didn’t work, I replied with what I hoped would be a more friendly and creative gloss on “profit,” one which pa pa himself could profit by. Well, you can see the egregiously nasty reply I got for my pains.
If this were just pa pa’s blathering, spiteful as it is, it wouldn’t be worth much of a response. But I think it is of a piece with the actions of other self-styled “defenders of Mormonism,” who blow in here thinking to slay some monsters and win favor with a diety who apparently thinks of his creation as little more than a game of Snakes ‘n Ladders. And pa pa’s ugly and thoughtless blurt wasn’t just directed at me, but at a place and group of people I owe a great deal to: a place I owe an intellectual debt, a people whose kindnesses I doubt I could ever repay.
On a message board with very little if any moderating, you will, of course, get all kinds of comments: from the studied and fascinating commentary of a poster like George Miller to the sneers of the Gordons. You will get people using the space to work through intellectual or emotional problems as well as people venting and reacting to the day’s frustrations. While that does make for wide variety in quality, it also allows each reader to easily find their level: one can be drawn into discussions which enlarge one’s knowledge and humanity, or one can follow the muddy footprints around the board to wallow in the vomit puddles (and contribute voluminously to them).
Truthfully, I get much more from this message board than what I put in. As I’ve become more interested in Mormon/Utah history and western americana, my scholarly work has thrived off the encouragement, leads and information an assortment of posters have generously offered me. For example, Sethbag casually mentioned a book to me that opened up an entire area of research I would otherwise have missed. Don Bradley’s commentary on and off the board has not only been intellectually essential, he’s also been kind enough to help me make contact with a number of scholars working in Mormon studies as well as introducing me to several archivists at the church history library (people worth knowing as decent human beings aside from being crack researchers). As I’ve pushed back further in Mormon history (my primary area of interest is Utah Mormonism), George Miller’s tantalizing contributions have been immensely thought-provoking and John Larson’s podcasts, especially the one on the Kirtland temple, have also helped begin to fill in some blanks. Uncle Dale’s archival website is nothing short of a blessing and he’s unstinting with his suggestions and help on and off board, as well. And runtu is the intellectual companion whose price is above rubies: a critical reader and gifted editor.
Both Ms.Jack and Aristotle Smith are responsible for massively realigning my view of religion. You can thank Aristotle/David for my recent foray into Bible study, something which continues to pay dividends in all aspects of my life. Ms.Jack has kindly discussed with me some of my more sophomoric questions about evangelicalism, further, her example has encouraged me to take some Mormon women bloggers more seriously than I had. MrStakhanovite is what every pedagogue craves: a student, an actual student. And like any worthwhile student, he’s also a teacher: I’ll single out only one of his posts, on Heschel’s
The Prophets, but truly I’ve gained from most everything he posts. And gramps and Kishkumen have spurred my recent foray into Mormon/utah writers/thinkers of the 30’s-50’s: a topic which I suspect may eventually yield the conceptual framework my current historical research has so desperately needed.
liz, harmony, Jason and moksha have each helped me attain a more nuanced view of how Mormonism is lived in the everyday; they’ve given me important ideas about living history. Both liz and alter idem (who sadly is not around much these days) have let me run ideas by them off board in order to help get a bead on how a believer might see something differently than I. Jason and RayA have helped balance my view of Mormon bishops, and again, both have offered to help me out with any other questions I have. And believe it or not, Paul Osborne was indirectly responsible for something I wrote on art and religious architecture which led me to investigate Quaker belief.
And new posters continue to bring new benefits. A few nights ago, I was excited to have honorentheos affirm that another idea of mine is worth working out (he doesn’t know it yet, but I’ve already decided his background would make him a perfect collaborator on that project). And recently Fence Sitter provided me with a highly provocative nugget which perfectly fits with a rich lode of research I’d been talking over with Gadianton. I’d barely “known” LDSToronto for two internet seconds before he graciously offered to talk further with me about temple questions.
As significant as such rich mental stimulation is, the real worth of this message board is measured in the astonishing human connections I’ve made here. Kimberly Ann and runtu are two of the most generous and warm-hearted people I’ve ever had the good fortune to know. Both have given me support and help when I most needed it. Kimberly Ann has become something of a decency role model for me. She’s reminded me several times about the necessity of charity (something with a long history between us on the board, despite recent effort to cast it in a lesser light), and her relationship with her daughters has by some strange alchemy helped me deal with my own parental problems. runtu is simply one of my closest and most beloved friends, well beyond anything I could put words to. When I met Infymus the last time I was in Salt Lake City and told him about some trouble I was having working out of my parent's house, he wrote down his address and phone number and told me to call or drop by any time; he offered to let me sleep on his couch as long as I needed to. And though I've not yet met them in the flesh, both Jersey Girl and Kishkumen have recently extended themselves to me in ways I'll never forget.
So, pa pa, your metaphor is sadly lacking. This is the desert blooming forth, the honey in the lion which, of course, the philistines could never understand.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."