Spong, re "The Second Coming"

[_Gazelam]

Come-on Bro, comparing ME to a "...a highschool-drop-out-sponge...couch-spud..."??? This is not gaining You points! IF you will do the deep-breathing thing, go for a long walk, study, fast & pray about this, then MAYBE we can continue this discussion sensibly & spiritually... Warm regards, Roger

I use those terms in regards to your faith.

Basing your faith on a non faith I'm sure is much easier since you now have no boundries or base of belief. You can think what you want, view things from a worldly perspective, and none of this has any bearing on anything, just so long as we're all nice to one another.

[_Roger Morrison]

Come-on Bro, comparing ME to a "...a highschool-drop-out-sponge...couch-spud..."??? This is not gaining You points! IF you will do the deep-breathing thing, go for a long walk, study, fast & pray about this, then MAYBE we can continue this discussion sensibly & spiritually... Warm regards, Roger

I use those terms in regards to your faith.

Basing your faith on a non faith I'm sure is much easier since you now have no boundries or base of belief. You can think what you want, view things from a worldly perspective, and none of this has any bearing on anything, just so long as we're all nice to one another. (Bold added)

Good AM Gaz, "Do unto others as You would have them do unto YOU..." "Seek diligently, pray always and be believing, and all things shall work...for Your good IF (when) You walk uprightly..." "...law predicated...upon which ALL blessings (effects) are predicated...keeping/finding/using the law brings its consequence/blessing..." UNAVOIDABLE!!!

Could it be you are inappropriately using the term "faith" from habit? I suggest "faith" has been misappropriated into Christianism as understood by the early followers, and hence into our time?

In reality the teachings of Jesus had to do with "works". Remember it was Christ who enumerated the things "believers" were to do. None of which were intended to result in anything but "feeling-good" as a dynamic 'doer'; thus helping the 'recipiant' "feel-good" as well.

I think it is quite obvious that "faith" in the rituals--blood/veggie sacrifice, covenants, ordinances--wasn't working all that well in the religious community into which Jesus entered as a teacher of correct principles AND the application there of. (How about in ours?)

Jesus tended to point out that "faith", as understood by Jews, was not doing its 'job'. He said he found more "faith" in non-Jews. No "mountains were being moved..." (I suggest today's scientists demonstrate more "faith" than do religious types, generally speaking.)

Seems most of us have the same difficulties today. IMSCO, when Christian inclined folks truly understand what they are to have "faith" in, then, and only then will humanity enjoy the fullness of the "Good News"...

The pages have to be turned Bro... Warm regards, Roger

[_Chap]

Come-on Bro, comparing ME to a "...a highschool-drop-out-sponge...couch-spud..."??? This is not gaining You points! IF you will do the deep-breathing thing, go for a long walk, study, fast & pray about this, then MAYBE we can continue this discussion sensibly & spiritually... Warm regards, Roger

I use those terms in regards to your faith.

Basing your faith on a non faith I'm sure is much easier since you now have no boundries or base of belief. You can think what you want, view things from a worldly perspective, and none of this has any bearing on anything, just so long as we're all nice to one another.

[My added emphasis]

You make that last bit seem very easy. In fact, if we could as a race manage to achieve that for 95% of the time, I should be very very happy, as well as being very very surprised.

Have you noticed, by the way, that in the early 21st century, as often in the past, religious belief does not, as such, seem to be making an especially distinguished contribution to the 'be nice' movement?

[_Gazelam]

Come-on Bro, comparing ME to a "...a highschool-drop-out-sponge...couch-spud..."??? This is not gaining You points! IF you will do the deep-breathing thing, go for a long walk, study, fast & pray about this, then MAYBE we can continue this discussion sensibly & spiritually... Warm regards, Roger

I use those terms in regards to your faith.

Basing your faith on a non faith I'm sure is much easier since you now have no boundries or base of belief. You can think what you want, view things from a worldly perspective, and none of this has any bearing on anything, just so long as we're all nice to one another. (Bold added)

Good AM Gaz, "Do unto others as You would have them do unto YOU..." "Seek diligently, pray always and be believing, and all things shall work...for Your good IF (when) You walk uprightly..." "...law predicated...upon which ALL blessings (effects) are predicated...keeping/finding/using the law brings its consequence/blessing..." UNAVOIDABLE!!!

Could it be you are inappropriately using the term "faith" from habit? I suggest "faith" has been misappropriated into Christianism as understood by the early followers, and hence into our time?

In reality the teachings of Jesus had to do with "works". Remember it was Christ who enumerated the things "believers" were to do. None of which were intended to result in anything but "feeling-good" as a dynamic 'doer'; thus helping the 'recipiant' "feel-good" as well.

I think it is quite obvious that "faith" in the rituals--blood/veggie sacrifice, covenants, ordinances--wasn't working all that well in the religious community into which Jesus entered as a teacher of correct principles AND the application there of. (How about in ours?)

Jesus tended to point out that "faith", as understood by Jews, was not doing its 'job'. He said he found more "faith" in non-Jews. No "mountains were being moved..." (I suggest today's scientists demonstrate more "faith" than do religious types, generally speaking.)

Seems most of us have the same difficulties today. IMSCO, when Christian inclined folks truly understand what they are to have "faith" in, then, and only then will humanity enjoy the fullness of the "Good News"...

The pages have to be turned Bro... Warm regards, Roger

The faith and the works go hand in hand. Too much emphasis should not be placed on either one, but both equaly. We are saved by grace through covenants Its in the fullfilment of covenants that we are filled and sanctified by the Holy Ghost. Proper keeping and maintaining of covenants will produce good works and strong faith, the kind that moves mountains.

Too many of us are like Saint Augustine who said "God make me clean...but not yet." Too many are unwilling to make the sacrifice of surrendering their sins and accepting the work of godliness. People want the blessings first, and the work later. Hence the lack of faith and the casting aside of covenants. Theres not a stirring in heaven until theres a stirring down here below.

If you want christians to appreciate what they have faith in, try teachign it like you used to and are supposed to.

[_Gazelam]

Have you noticed, by the way, that in the early 21st century, as often in the past, religious belief does not, as such, seem to be making an especially distinguished contribution to the 'be nice' movement?

Theres alot of really good work being done all over the place, but it doesent make for very entertaining news stories. You wont hear about a church group working hard to help a community unless someones kid is molested at the event or theres a drive-by done on the group working in the ghetto.

If you go to the LDS website and do a little digging theres a list of the work being done all over ther world by the church. Food, clothing, bedding, etc...

Its there, but you have to go and be a part of it if you really want to see it.