Should the church teach non-donctrinal stuff?

[_Trevor]

To be honest, I've never heard a TBM say "Once the prophet has spoken, the thinking has been done." But I can't count how many times I've heard, "I don't know what I think about (fill in the blank with any political issue, movie, current event, etc). I am waiting to hear what the prophet says about it." Typically they end up waiting until it is no longer a relevant issue anymore.

Yes. Truly the Lord's sheep would be lost, if they had no one to tell them how many ear-piercings He smiles upon, or other such crucial information. Why, would the youth of Zion falter, if they got piercings wrong?

[_Mister Scratch]

C'mon, Bob, that's not what SWSU was saying at all. Rather, s/he was pointing out the dangers that these "rules" have in LDS Culture on account of the institutionalized secrecy and internal power structure. That, and the fact that it is frequently difficult to parse out just what, exactly, is "doctrine" and what is merely "opinion."

Especially if people don't think for themselves, which would largely be their own fault.

How can it be "their own fault" if the Church itself does not offer any clarification regarding confusing doctrinal matters? One could think and think, but if no real answers are forthcoming, then it hardly seems fair to blame the individual. That would be like accusing a person of a crime when no clear laws have been established.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

And, of course, "When the prophet speaks, the debate is over", which can be found at LDS.org, or "once the First Presidency has taken a postion, faithful members will align themselves with this position", which was uttered by none less than the current Prophet, is totally different from "the thinking has been done".

Where is this found on LDS.org?

LOAP?!?!?! I am SHOCKED! Are you advocating that faithful LDS folk deviate from the safe course commanded by God's only true prophets?

Talk quieter, the Danites might hear, you fool!

And, of course, "When the prophet speaks, the debate is over", which can be found at LDS.org, or "once the First Presidency has taken a postion, faithful members will align themselves with this position", which was uttered by none less than the current Prophet, is totally different from "the thinking has been done". Come on, don't you see it? "Debate" does not equal thinking. They can still think whatever they want, as long as they shut up about it and do what we say.

Oh! Well... what a relief! Thanks for steering me back to reality, Zoid. I was beginning to enter into a state of paralysis when I realized that without President Hinckley's okeedokee, I couldn't even get up to take a piss! Damn good thing you corrected me! ;-)

Who's blindly accepting stuff, now? :O

To be honest, I've never heard a TBM say "Once the prophet has spoken, the thinking has been done." But I can't count how many times I've heard, "I don't know what I think about (fill in the blank with any political issue, movie, current event, etc). I am waiting to hear what the prophet says about it." Typically they end up waiting until it is no longer a relevant issue anymore.

Laziness!

How can it be "their own fault" if the Church itself does not offer any clarification regarding confusing doctrinal matters? One could think and think, but if no real answers are forthcoming, then it hardly seems fair to blame the individual. That would be like accusing a person of a crime when no clear laws have been established.

I thought the problem was the Church declared all matters and members were supposed to sheep on over. ;)

Yes, I believe most people have the responsibility to think for themselves.

[_Trevor]

Who's blindly accepting stuff, now? :O

Check and mate!

[_Zoidberg]

And, of course, "When the prophet speaks, the debate is over", which can be found at LDS.org, or "once the First Presidency has taken a postion, faithful members will align themselves with this position", which was uttered by none less than the current Prophet, is totally different from "the thinking has been done".

Where is this found on LDS.org?

"The debate is over" was coined by Tanner (no, not that one; N. Eldon Tanner). It is found in three different contexts on LDS.org, one of them being an Aaronic Priesthood manual, so this stuff is actually actively taught in the Church today.

And here's GBH's talk on loyalty.

The exact quote: "How grateful, my brethren, I feel, how profoundly grateful for the tremendous faith of so many Latter-day Saints who, when facing a major decision on which the Church has taken a stand, align themselves with that position."

[_Trevor]

The exact quote: "How grateful, my brethren, I feel, how profoundly grateful for the tremendous faith of so many Latter-day Saints who, when facing a major decision on which the Church has taken a stand, align themselves with that position."

What a life these folks must lead.

[_Jason Bourne]

Hi SWSU.... :-)

You won't be excommunicated for letting your wife work.

What sort of sick relationship is it that a man has to "let" or "allow" his wife to work?

;-)

OK... back to your point! (smile)

~dancer~

Perhaps this is just a language convention. I ask my wife if she is ok with my taking another employment offer, if we are making a major purchase, and for all sorts of things. She asked me today if I was ok if she was not going to be home next week on Tuesday eve due to a work seminar.

Team work requires courtesy.

[_bcspace]

Well that's the point. The church teaches what amounts to opinion out of manuals that many people take as doctrine and run with it.

CFR

This is what leads to all the pseudo-doctrine that defines the church even more than the small amount of real doctrine. My wife says that flip-flops are banned in church. Where do you think she got this from? I have no idea, but these types of "rules" permeate Mormon culture. I'm not sure why the pseudo doctrines take off the way they do.

Sure, but the Church is quite clear on what is and is not doctrine, see the 'Approaching Mormon Doctrine' news release on LDS.org. Those principles have been around for as long as I've been alive and communicated to everyone in leadership or teaching positions through the CHI, Teacher preparation courses, the MTC, etc.

[_ludwigm]

.. It is found in three different contexts on LDS.org ...

Everything is found many times on that site, especially in the magazines. Not only in different context but repeated word by word.
A few example (You can find many more) :
- Ensign » 2006 » August / First Presidency Message - Led by Spiritual Pioneers
President Thomas S. Monson First Counselor in the First Presidency
and
- Ensign » 1997 » May - They Showed the Way
President Thomas S. Monson First Counselor in the First Presidency
Or another
- Ensign » 2001 » October / First Presidency Message - Hallmarks of a Happy Home
By President Thomas S. Monson First Counselor in the First Presidency
and
- Ensign » 1988 » November - Hallmarks of a Happy Home
President Thomas S. Monson Second Counselor in the First Presidency
(There are from other GAs, too not only from TSM.)
1. The aimed readers don't read it. If they read, don't understand. If they understand, don't remember.
2. The writers of the articles know it and misuse it.

[_Trevor]

CFR

CFR, indeed! Such baseless claims. This is an *outrage*!!!

(Can you hear my teeth grinding in fury?)