Mormon Brainwashing

[_jskains]

Hey dude. Mellow out. I'm not desprate [sic] to hate Mormonism. I am a Mormon. There is a difference between religious indoctrination and teaching your children values and ethics. If you can't see that difference then that's your problem. Also, try to avoid the cheesy cliches...they don't help your cause.

No there isn't.. It's all scale. Parental indoctrination is no different than Church-wide indoctrination. It's just a difference in source. by the way, discrediting someone with comments like "Also, try to avoid the cheesy cliches...they don't help your cause." is just as cheesy.. It's an overused ploy to distract from the fact someone doesn't have anything to say of worth.

JMS

[_guy sajer]

As a believer, I don't expect you to see or understand the many negative impacts Mormonism has had on many families and individuals. Read up on this and become enlightened. There's hundreds of case studies out there if you choose to look.

There are just as many studies on how much Mormonism is a positive influence on familes. There are studies to show that monkeys mate slower after eating dogfood... So what?

As for all the stories, if you read into many of them, you can see often they blame Mormomism for everything. It's a cheap trick that anyone can play. If your so blind that you go to Anti-Mormon websites not expecting stories with an Anti-Mormon bend, you really got your head in the sand.

Your reasoning doesn't follow. Teaching your children that Mormonism has, or can have, certain harmful effects is hardly brainwashing.

One man's brainwashing is another man's protection.

You started out complaining that we critics use the term brainwashing too liberally, and you've now expanded the definition way past anything critics would use.

Of course. My definition of Brainwashing isn't restricted to "Any teaching that the Mormon Church promotes that I don't agree with is Brainwashing". I know, foolish me.

JMS

I have no doubt that Mormonism does good for many people. It's made, for example, my parents very happy. But it does do harm for others, so it makes sense for people to point this out, and they are capable of deciding for themselves, and teaching their children, whether this harm outweighs the good. This is called good parenting. You call it brainwashing.

I think you'll find few people here who think that anything the Mormon Church teaches that I don't agree with is Brainwashing. Straw man alert!!

Besides, brainwashing is more the method of teaching, not the teaching itself.

I am confident that most rational, objective persons, armed with an understanding of what constitute indocrination, would agree that indoctrination in the Mormon Church is persistent. I personally think it's also unhealthy, which is one reason I prefer my children not to be affliated with it (there are others).

If this kind of lousy argumentation works at MAD Board (if that's where you come from), you'll find it doesn't work so well here.

[_Maxrep]

jskains,

I know this is neither here nor there, but I spoke with the three Nephites yesterday.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Now that I am going to be a father, I have grown closer to the Church and feel it is a positive light in a very dark world. ... I am frightened of the world that I am bringing a child into

Sorry to hear that you feel this way. I, personally, think the world is a wonderful, beautiful place, and it's getting better all the time. Our world today, is much 'lighter' than it was hundreds of years ago. Maybe the church, afterall, is the right place for you. Good luck with it. ;)

Agreed. I don't understand why people think the world is dark and gloomy. A few years ago someone posted a Mormon parody of Louis Armstrong's song "What a Wonderful World." I think it was titled "What a Wicked and Abominable World." Mormons have a very negative attitude towards the non-mormon world, and it's really sad. It is also evidence of the indoctrination that the OP is trying to deny.

[_silentkid]

Parental indoctrination is no different than Church-wide indoctrination.

So you say.

by the way, discrediting someone with comments like "Also, try to avoid the cheesy cliches...they don't help your cause." is just as cheesy.. It's an overused ploy to distract from the fact someone doesn't have anything to say of worth.

I wasn't discrediting your comments by telling you to avoid cliches. I was just offering a suggestion. You are not required to accept my advice.

The part I bolded: Ouch. Zinger.

PS: How did you telling me that I'm cutting of my nose to spite my face help your argument?

[_Imwashingmypirate]

One of the constant claims is that of the Brainwashing techniques... But considering the facts and mechanisms in play, I fail to see it. Worse, I fail to see how it is any more controlling than other Christian faiths.

For example, traditional Christianity runs off fear based control. "If you don't follow our teachings, you are bound for Hell". Or "You are a product of Original Sin, so if you don't get dunked in water fast enough, your bound for the eternal bog of stench". So how are these fear based concepts fine, but Mormonism is somehow "brainwashing"?

I was missing for 3 months. While I still had contact with folks, I never had a Mormon Nazi Death Squad come to my house telling me if I didn't go back to Church, they would make all my pillows go flat or make all my wall pictures crooked. Friends at Church (including my Bishop, who is a friend) asked how I was doing and made sure I was Ok, but they didn't give me lectures on how I am Hell bound for not returning. Matter-of-a-fact, nothing about "consequences" came up.

What is even funnier, is the traditional "brainwashing" techniques usually come from trained staff, like that nice money-based organization that Tom Cruise is a member of. In Mormonism, since we all basically teach ourselves (I even have taught classes - gasp - and I didn't get an ounce of brainwashing training) and in many cases govern ourselves, wouldn't WE the people of the LDS faith have to brainwash each other?

Anti-Mormons like to dance and flail about, I know. It's now comical looking into it these days. Now that I am going to be a father, I have grown closer to the Church and feel it is a positive light in a very dark world. Teenage pregnancy is up, school shootings are more common than they used to be.... Children are declining in moral and social value (play on XBox Live and see how these kids talk), and now the family unit is under attack.... I am frightened of the world that I am bringing a child into (the pregnancy was a suprise for us, not planned)..... Ultimately it looks like people need to HATE something, and for Anti-Mormons, they get that high by trying to bring down something others care about.

Anyways, that is my question. Like I said... I wonder how much you can say the LDS Church BRAINWASHES people... I think I am rather intelligent (147), and feel I chose to be Mormon.

JMS

Im 149, doesn't make me intelligent though.

[_guy sajer]

Now that I am going to be a father, I have grown closer to the Church and feel it is a positive light in a very dark world. ... I am frightened of the world that I am bringing a child into

Sorry to hear that you feel this way. I, personally, think the world is a wonderful, beautiful place, and it's getting better all the time. Our world today, is much 'lighter' than it was hundreds of years ago. Maybe the church, afterall, is the right place for you. Good luck with it. ;)

Agreed. I don't understand why people think the world is dark and gloomy. A few years ago someone posted a Mormon parody of Louis Armstrong's song "What a Wonderful World." I think it was titled "What a Wicked and Abominable World." Mormons have a very negative attitude towards the non-mormon world, and it's really sad. It is also evidence of the indoctrination that the OP is trying to deny.

Well, the world sure is a hell of a lot better place today for women, blacks, disabled, gays, etc. (at least in the West). The good ol' days were great if you happened to be white, male, straight, etc. I'd much rather have lived in today's world than any other time in world history. I don't get this false nostalgia for the halcyon days of yore. (Not saying that jskains is guilty of this. Just a general comment that seems at least tangentially relevant here.)

[_jskains]

I have no doubt that Mormonism does good for many people. It's made, for example, my parents very happy. But it does do harm for others, so it makes sense for people to point this out, and they are capable of deciding for themselves, and teaching their children, whether this harm outweighs the good. This is called good parenting. You call it brainwashing.

But that it is the problem. Your not giving your kids a choice. THAT is brainwashing by its own definition. Your forcing your opinion on them, not letting them find out for themselves. What if they disagree with your findings? You disown them?

I think you'll find few people here who think that anything the Mormon Church teaches that I don't agree with is Brainwashing. Straw man alert!!

That seems to be the pattern so far. As a believer I am automatically brainwashed and my kids are automatically brainwashed. Logic goes "Joshua is a Mormon hence Joshua is Brainwashed". In order to draw that conclusion you have to also conclude that "Everything the Mormon Church teaches is brainwashing"... How is that pattern false? (BAD USE OF "STRAW-MAN ARGUMENT ALERT" ALERT!!!)

Besides, brainwashing is more the method of teaching, not the teaching itself.

What, in your ward it was all "A Clockwork Orange"? In my ward, we have a teacher, a book, and a lesson followed with discussion. Same method every church and school has been using for years... How is that method brainwashing? Or is everyone who teaches a "brainwasher"?

I am confident that most rational, objective persons, armed with an understanding of what constitute indocrination, would agree that indoctrination in the Mormon Church is persistent. I personally think it's also unhealthy, which is one reason I prefer my children not to be affliated with it (there are others).

How is it any more unhealthy than what is currently promoted in ANY religious school?

If this kind of lousy argumentation works at MAD Board (if that's where you come from), you'll find it doesn't work so well here.

MAD? I used to subscribe to the magazine, but last time I checked it wasn't religious or Mormon based. And as for lousy, now there is a logical fallacy. Because I didn't argue the way you argue it is automatically lousy? Heh.

JMS

[Analytics]

Anyways, that is my question. Like I said... I wonder how much you can say the LDS Church BRAINWASHES people... I think I am rather intelligent (147), and feel I chose to be Mormon.

IQ has little to do with anything. I've been rated as having an IQ of 85 once, but then I turned around and kicked butt at math competitions. I think the day will come when IQ will be relegated to the waste bin of phrenology. Smart people can believe weird things. Newton believed in alchemy. If smarts has anything to do with freely choosing a religion, why do most "smart" people choose something other than Mormonism? Does their pride in their intelligence get in their way? If so, then it would seem that smarts can actually hinder one's ability to choose.

Statistically people tend to stick with the religion of their parents. If you call that freedom, you're kidding yourself. Yes, there are those who change, but I do not see numbers indicating favor for Mormonism above others. Indeed, it almost seems that atheism is the favored choice--or maybe deism.

[_guy sajer]

I have no doubt that Mormonism does good for many people. It's made, for example, my parents very happy. But it does do harm for others, so it makes sense for people to point this out, and they are capable of deciding for themselves, and teaching their children, whether this harm outweighs the good. This is called good parenting. You call it brainwashing.

But that it is the problem. Your not giving your kids a choice. THAT is brainwashing by its own definition. Your forcing your opinion on them, not letting them find out for themselves. What if they disagree with your findings? You disown them?

Where the hell does this come from? I haven't forced my belief on any of my children. My oldest son has opted out of Mormonism, my younger three still attend. My wife and I have an agreement that they attend church with her unitl 17, when they can choose for themselves. But, I'm as free to share my beliefs with them as she is. I've told my children numerous times that I love them, and my concern is that they're happy, and if they choose Mormonism, then I'll support them. I've only asked them to please have a civil wedding first so that I can attend. My love for my children is unconditional as per their religious beliefs.