Which way did they go Joe?

[_LCD2YOU]

I'm sorry charity, I didn't make it clear since I thought everyone but LCD2YOU had been here when this argument was first discussed, but these are not my arguments, so your point-by-point with snarky name references ("Blixa knows..." etc.) are pretty wide of the mark. The arguments are Don Bradley's and I merely reposted them because I thought LCD2YOU would find it of interest. I don't really care a great deal about debating the historicity of the Book of Mormon: it doesn't strike me as an urgent issue, though I recognize that it is of greater interest for others. That's why I directed LCD2YOU's attention to this argument. Providing texts to students is what a teacher does, engaging in illogical and condescending snarkfests is not.

Thank you Blixa for your input.

As I said, I post when I can. The more worthless conference calls, this time someone blew out a blade on a switch don't ask me how, the more I can post.

Right now, I'm trying to not be the fall guy so I gotta go.

Yes, I did find them of interest.


Ciao

[_charity]

I have answered Blixa's post and refuted her (or Don Bradley's) arguments.

So far, LCD2YOU has offered nothing but slapshots which are wide of the mark, interspered with Easter Bunnies and Spaceeships. And promising to be even snarkier than he/she has been.

I am waiting for something substantial.

[_Runtu]

I have answered Blixa's post and refuted her (or Don Bradley's) arguments.

If snarkiness constitutes "refutation," that would be true. "Duh" is not an argument, last time I checked.

[_Bond...James Bond]

Book of Mormon: A valley with a stream that never quit, with fruit trees.
Byllseye: There really is such a place, exactly where the Book of Mormon says it should be.

That is really, really vague.

[_mledbetter]

I guess when all you got is belief and superstition go with what you got.

Snarky.

An unfortunate but true statement.

You have faith, that's fine, but when faith blinds you to the facts, that's an issue.

As for snarky, didn't you draw first blood about my arguements and most likely myself being sophmoric?

Pot? Kettle?

All you know the Easter bunny could have been leading them. There's a term for you, "Eyes wide shut'.

Of course when Joseph created the Book of Mormon from his imagination he knew that he had issues with the ship. Those are all "ships" too, right? Be very careful how you answer that because I will promise you it will come back to haunt you.

Bring it on.

I have and you are unable to respond save for hand waiving.

The "lord" could have Nephi build an airplane. Rockets would have been a good method too. Perhaps it was an airship.

Only snarky remarks?

Actually the description you posted from Nephi essentially "built like nothing of man", at the time could describe an airship. It could describe a rocketship. It could have been a teleporter. After all, it was "nothing like men's stuff, correct?"

Oh, I know of the Book of Mormon.

We could tell you didn't know what the Book of Mormon says. Your posts have demonstrated a real ignorance of the subject. If you want to discuss it you should at least know what you are talking about. It think it was Mark Twain that said Better keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than open it and remove all doubt.

And that Ad hom was for what?

Like I said, I know about the Book of Mormon. I may not know chapter and verse, but the beauty of the internet means that it is at my fingertips.

As for the rest, like your comments about Thor crossing the Pacific in 4 months when that was clearly not the case, perhaps you are in far more need to listen to your own advise. Don't you think? I forgot, looking at your responces and what you post as evidence, you don't.

You want snarky? You have not seen it yet.

So why don't you use something other than the Book of Mormon? I know, you can't!

Since I gave you a list of outside references, I did just that.

Which have been shot down.

When I took debate in high school, the teacher told us that if even one argument posed by the other side stood unrefuted, we lost. I have posted 5, and all you have done is be snarky. You lose.

This is the most telling.

I asked you for refs. You said you'd come back. I waited.

Now you post and expect instant responses.

You're a fraud and charity for you is in name only.

Don't worry, If you haven't noticed, I'm getting to and blowing away what you've been posting already.

I'll ghet to your, er, entertaining hand waving exercises in time.

See, last night I went to my girls Holiday Recital and then we went out to watch hockey and eat hot wings.

Today, I get this in during conference calls.

What did you ask of me?

Oh yes, patience.

But you are incapable of reciprocating.

Charity? My hairy, muscular buttocks.

Just a note to the two of you. You have a much better chance of convincing someone of your arguments when you're not being such a$$es to one another.

Then again, I don't think there is any attempt at convincing around here. Just one-upping your opponent for self-glory.

[_LCD2YOU]

I stayed up extra late, just for you.

Really? Just for me? Waiting for a real man? Thanks!

Where Joseph Smith got it right. And this took about 20 minutes.

Book of Mormon: Nahom as a place for mourning, with the death of Ishmael
Bullseye: Real place named NHM, where the Book of Mormon says it would be, and it has a large burial ground associated with it. (NHM wasn’t on any maps Joseph could have seen.)

Really where? A place where there's a large burial ground?

Wow. Sounds like many places in the US where there are long inhabited places there are cemeteries.

Vague and as Blixia pointed out, not close.

Book of Mormon: A valley with a stream that never quit, with fruit trees.
Byllseye: There really is such a place, exactly where the Book of Mormon says it should be.

Wow, more vauge refs. Where exactly? Or as was pointed out was this another "shooting arrows" and drawing bulleyes afterwards?

I can give you several locations, all by inhabited areas (in a desert, if there's running water there are people by it) so why wouldn't people grow things there. That little bit of agriculture would be used in many places.

Book of Mormon: Nephi finds metal to smelt for tools.
Bullseye: Yemeni government discovered iron ore in sufficient quantities to be mined in the right area.

Book of Mormon: A son of king Zedekiah survives. Named Mulek.
Bullseye: Lachish letters prove existence of Malkiyah, the “little king.”

OMFG! ou are grasping aren't you?

Book of Mormon: Egyptian names Paachhi, Pahoran, Pacumeni.
Bullseye: Names confirmed. Not known in Joseph Smith’s time.

And this is known how?

All of those supposed things mean nothing.

Burial mounds, wow, those were uncommon (not).

Fruit trees by rivers. Another revalation.

You think these are good examples? Sorry, that is what I call "hearsay" and fitting the facts to what you want it to be.

How about the location of the last battle? See, As a kid, I kept on hearing how Mo archeaologists were always "almost there" in finding the site of the last battle and "Boy was it big". That was 30 years ago and still "Final battle"? The quest for sanity in blind Mo-bots is still being fought. Even my step mom who grew up in Idaho 25 years before I heard it remembers the kids coming out of Seminary with "proof of the Book of Mormon and won't her and her family be sorry".

Here's something for you:

Joseph Smith was known to be big into the occult.

The Rosetta stone was found and was supposedly mystical powers.

The Stone has three markings:

Greek, Demotic Egyptian and Hieroglyphic Egyptian.

Remember "Reformed Egyptian"?

Read up on the Rosetta Stone.

[_mledbetter]

Here's something for you:

Joseph Smith was known to be big into the occult.

The Rosetta stone was found and was supposedly mystical powers.

The Stone has three markings:

Greek, Demotic Egyptian and Hieroglyphic Egyptian.

Remember "Reformed Egyptian"?

Read up on the Rosetta Stone.

WOW, OMFG, We've never hear these arguments before!!!!! You are just blowing us the F**k away, aren't you!!!!

[_LCD2YOU]

WOW, OMFG, We've never hear these arguments before!!!!! You are just blowing us the F**k away, aren't you!!!!

You're welcome. I doubt if I am but the sentiment is appreciated. It has been a while since I've been on these boards but don't worry, I'll get even better. So far charity has tried but her evidence has been lacking. Her "points" are about as vague as me telling you "There's a city where they have had major calamities in China". Duh.

So, what do you think about them? Not so highly is my guess.

But all of those things, Joseph being a money digger, his forays into the occult, the mysticism of the times, he had epilepsy (that scares me when I see someone in a seizure and I know what is happening (after the initial shock)! Imagine some early 19th century farmer seeing it easy to see why many could believe he was recieving visions) and his association with Masonry. There are more facts that there were many side shows going around the country with "strange artifacts from the mysterious past" in the circus, Joseph Smith's father did trade with merchants and lost a shipment in the Comoros Islands, that maps were available and more.

That points to a conman for profit, not a man of god who is a prophet.

[_karl61]

They went south to the east coast of Africa - You can trace the DNA from a tribe there to Israel.

Which would mean that Lehi and company stopped for generations and integrated (ie had sex with) with the locals.

2 promblems:

1: That would indicate decades of travel as they stopped and raised families. Or Lehi and the boys jumped off the ship to explore the various "red light districts" along africa to dip their wicks.

2: Why is there no dna matches in Meso American Indians and Isreal?

Here is the link about the Lemba Tribe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemba

I think they might of created a temporary plural marriage rule - from sun down to morning break when the orange planet could be seen in the sky.

[_LCD2YOU]

I have answered Blixa's post and refuted her (or Don Bradley's) arguments.

No. You dismissed from personal belief and incredulity, not with any facts nor evidence.[quote=charity]So far, LCD2YOU has offered nothing but slapshots which are wide of the mark, interspered with Easter Bunnies and Spaceeships. And promising to be even snarkier than he/she has been.[/quote]Re-read your Book of Mormon. In Nephi, he did say he made it unlike other men. That description can mean anything. Such is the problem with TB anyone, they make it mean what they want it to mean. As for snakiness, I'll back off.

I am waiting for something substantial.

Hmm. So am I. Sorry, but you've done no such thing. The refs you gave were so vague as to be far passed the point of useless.

The original question was: "Which way did they go Joe".

Your answer is "God did it for them". If that was the case, why even pretend? It would seem that Lehi would make a point of describing the miracles. He couldn't as he didn't exist outside of Joseph's and perhaps a few others' minds.

I was wrong in letting you derail me off of that part. If you wish to create a new thread, I'd be happy to join in. So I'll create a new thread and you can keep your points germaine to which route did Lehi take.