I find that I disagree with much of what you presented in the OP, except for the Old Testament. I don't think God is a misogynist, I think the writers of the Old Testament were as well as the culture that they wrote from.
I disagree with your assessment of Paul. There are NUMEROUS (not yelling, to lazy to bold) passages in the New Testament attributed to Paul that demonstrate just the opposite of your take on him. I will be glad to list them here if you'd like.
So far as I can tell, women were prohibited from *teaching* in church and there were cultural reasons to justify that. I see nothing that prohibits them from praying, prophesying, and there were women who infact acted as pastors of the early church.
I'll go dig up a ref for you.
Jersey Girl
Jersey Girl
Why does the SBC still prohibit women from pastoring church's. Calvary chapel as well.
I find that I disagree with much of what you presented in the OP, except for the Old Testament. I don't think God is a misogynist, I think the writers of the Old Testament were as well as the culture that they wrote from.
I disagree with your assessment of Paul. There are NUMEROUS (not yelling, to lazy to bold) passages in the New Testament attributed to Paul that demonstrate just the opposite of your take on him. I will be glad to list them here if you'd like.
So far as I can tell, women were prohibited from *teaching* in church and there were cultural reasons to justify that. I see nothing that prohibits them from praying, prophesying, and there were women who infact acted as pastors of the early church.
I'll go dig up a ref for you.
Jersey Girl
Here's a good bit of information from one of my favorite ref sites:
I find that I disagree with much of what you presented in the OP, except for the Old Testament. I don't think God is a misogynist, I think the writers of the Old Testament were as well as the culture that they wrote from.
I disagree with your assessment of Paul. There are NUMEROUS (not yelling, to lazy to bold) passages in the New Testament attributed to Paul that demonstrate just the opposite of your take on him. I will be glad to list them here if you'd like.
So far as I can tell, women were prohibited from *teaching* in church and there were cultural reasons to justify that. I see nothing that prohibits them from praying, prophesying, and there were women who infact acted as pastors of the early church.
I'll go dig up a ref for you.
Jersey Girl
Jersey Girl
Why does the SBC still prohibit women from pastoring church's. Calvary chapel as well.
I have no blessed clue.
I take back my bratty remark here. I don't know anything about "Calvary chapel". I'm certain that the SBC prohibits women pastors due to the Pauline caution regarding women teaching in church.
I find that I disagree with much of what you presented in the OP, except for the Old Testament. I don't think God is a misogynist, I think the writers of the Old Testament were as well as the culture that they wrote from.
I disagree with your assessment of Paul. There are NUMEROUS (not yelling, to lazy to bold) passages in the New Testament attributed to Paul that demonstrate just the opposite of your take on him. I will be glad to list them here if you'd like.
So far as I can tell, women were prohibited from *teaching* in church and there were cultural reasons to justify that. I see nothing that prohibits them from praying, prophesying, and there were women who infact acted as pastors of the early church.
I'll go dig up a ref for you.
Jersey Girl
Jersey Girl
Why does the SBC still prohibit women from pastoring church's. Calvary chapel as well.
I have no blessed clue.
I can tell you. They base it on they way they read Paul. Apparently they get it different then you. Wonder why and who is right?
I find that I disagree with much of what you presented in the OP, except for the Old Testament. I don't think God is a misogynist, I think the writers of the Old Testament were as well as the culture that they wrote from.
I disagree with your assessment of Paul. There are NUMEROUS (not yelling, to lazy to bold) passages in the New Testament attributed to Paul that demonstrate just the opposite of your take on him. I will be glad to list them here if you'd like.
So far as I can tell, women were prohibited from *teaching* in church and there were cultural reasons to justify that. I see nothing that prohibits them from praying, prophesying, and there were women who infact acted as pastors of the early church.
I'll go dig up a ref for you.
Jersey Girl
Jersey Girl
Why does the SBC still prohibit women from pastoring church's. Calvary chapel as well.
I have no blessed clue.
I can tell you. They base it on they way they read Paul. Apparently they get it different then you. Wonder why and who is right?
Yes, I stated that in the second post I made which is right above yours:
"I take back my bratty remark here. I don't know anything about "Calvary chapel". I'm certain that the SBC prohibits women pastors due to the Pauline caution regarding women teaching in church."
You ask who I think is right. I think that the SBC is correct in their interpretation. I have not stated otherwise unless you factor in my remarks about females pastoring early Christian churches which is supported by the Religious Tolerance link I supplied. Perhaps the use of the term "pastoring" in that case is off base? Watcha think?
Yes, I stated that in the second post I made which is right above yours:
"I take back my bratty remark here. I don't know anything about "Calvary chapel". I'm certain that the SBC prohibits women pastors due to the Pauline caution regarding women teaching in church."
Sorry
I saw that after I posted my comment.
You ask who I think is right. I think that the SBC is correct in their interpretation. I have not stated otherwise unless you factor in my remarks about females pastoring early Christian churches which is supported by the Religious Tolerance link I supplied.
So you think it is ok for the SBC to do this. Calvery Chapel reaches the same conclusion as the SBC as do many other conservative Churches. In fact, if on compare SBC positions on women to the position of the LDS Church as found in the Proclamation on the Family the LDS Church is more friendly towards women
Yes, I stated that in the second post I made which is right above yours:
"I take back my bratty remark here. I don't know anything about "Calvary chapel". I'm certain that the SBC prohibits women pastors due to the Pauline caution regarding women teaching in church."
Sorry
I saw that after I posted my comment.
You ask who I think is right. I think that the SBC is correct in their interpretation. I have not stated otherwise unless you factor in my remarks about females pastoring early Christian churches which is supported by the Religious Tolerance link I supplied.
So you think it is ok for the SBC to do this. Calvery Chapel reaches the same conclusion as the SBC as do many other conservative Churches. In fact, if on compare SBC positions on women to the position of the LDS Church as found in the Proclamation on the Family the LDS Church is more friendly towards women
Yes, I do think the SBC (as a fundamentalist org) is okay in taking this position. I am not well familiar with the Proclamation on the Family. Could you post a few excerpts here that you think demonstrate that it is more friendly to women?
"By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners."
"More friendly to women" apparently includes the man always "presiding" over the woman, though she is called an equal partner.
If one equal partner presides, even if he does so in love and righteousness, this makes the other subordinate, at least in rule if not rank.
And thus, not equal.
Kimberly Ann, I don't think God is a misogynist, so the Pauline-attributed verses in 1 Timothy are the ones I struggle the most with, when it comes to reconciling other Pauline verses which speak of equality between men and women.
I do, however, think an alternate understanding of 1 Corinthians 11, with the "woman" representing the church body makes for a plausible reconciliation. I've tried to understand 1 Timothy from the same point of view, but it really becomes a stretch.
KimberlyAnn wrote:The more I read of the Bible and study various strains of Christianity, the more I feel that God must be a raging misogynist. It's clearly evident that He doesn't think much of women. KA
Not that he is (if he exists), it is just that idiots like "Old Farts" (in Old Testament,New Testament) wrote the whole thing. Joseph Smith was equally bright! He entirely failed to mention any women (xcept one or two).
Men write scripture, vote on it, canonize it, accept it. God does not write scripture, etc. We get a filtered message, and it's always filtered through men. And how have men treated women, historically? Exactly. Don't blame God. Put the blame where it belongs.