Is it wrong to hate scouting if you are LDS?

[_John Larsen]

I enjoyed scouting when I was young. However, I think the Church should get out of the scouting business. Both the Church and BSA will be better for it (although the BSA will lose a MAJOR source of income).

My little boy cannot enter scouts even if he wants to and all of his friends are. That is because the BSA chooses to discriminate based on religion.

That makes me sad. A group that systematically discriminates against children is not one that is worth supporting in any form.

John

[_SatanWasSetUp]

I hate scouting. When I was a faithful LDS, I hated scouting. I hated being a scout, I hated being a scout leader, I just hated scouts, and I still do. Now, maybe hate is a strong word. Just to be clear, I don't think there is anything wrong with scouting for those who enjoy it, but it just has never been for me. When I was faithful LDS I pretended to like scouting and think it was important. I was afraid to tell anyone I think scouting sucks, because everywhere I've been the scouting program was a church program that all boys were expected to take part in.

You one of those fat doughboys who can't keep up? lol

No, but it seems every troop has one or two of those kids. I'm sure they would rather be doing other things. As a scout, I hate to say, I was one of the punks that picked on the geeky fat kids. As a scout leader, I had a real soft spot in my heart for those guys and was overly sensitive to any bullying directed at them.

So here is my question. Is criticism of LDS scouting on the same level as criticism of the church?

My criticism is that the wards are so small now that each patrol might often have 1-3 boys in it. This cancels out the functions of leadership like patrol leader etc.

However, the more troops the Church has, the more influence they have in the BSA whci keeps them conservative as they ought to be.

I have wondered why the church doesn't go with Stake troops. So the number of troops gives them more influence. That would explain the small ward troops.

I just assumed it would be irreverent and rebellious, perhaps sacrilegious to criticise scouting.

It depends.

I don't know what most LDS think on this issue, so my main point is scouting is not for everyone. When a person joins the church, they are not told that scouting is a part of it.

I think a lot of people assume others know what to do, that scouting, for example, it common to all. So I agree, they ought to be told.

Yet, all boys are expected to participae in scouting and to get their Eagle

It's THE youth program for boys in the Church.

But as Bourne pointed out, the church is moving toward the Strength of Youth program for boys, so there is an alternative.

And some boys hate scouting and would rather be involved in sports, music, or other activities that fit their interests.

You can do both.

But why should you? If your child is more interested in something else, why not support that? Sure you could do both, but why not just drop the thing your kid isn't interested in and focus on what he/she is interested in?

So why is scouts so emphasised in the church,

It provides opportunites for boys to see men involved in the world and yet still active in Church.

Huh? How is being a scout leader being involved in the world, more than say a soccer coach, or a music teacher?

and is it okay to criticize the scouting program without being an apostate.

Sure.

and this is my main question. I think many LDS have inserted scouting into the restored gospel of the church, therefore it is part of the priesthood and the gospel and a requirement for membership. It seems to me that scouting is a secular activity and, although a church activity, not a requirement.

[_Mercury]

I REALLY liked being a scout. I looked forward to camping trips and outings, merit badges, etc. I got disillusioned when as a 15 y/o boy I was ostracized in my troop after the wards were shifted to consolidate the middle class families with the lower class families in order for the upper middle class families to have their own ward. The misbehaving dinks in the new ward banded with those from the old ward and, lower classes being a**holes, proceeded to ruin scout camp by bullying and exposing themselves repeatedly to me. I came back from scout camp a mental wreck. When I spoke up about the treatment I was summarily told to not tell anyone and "boys will be boys".

Scouting has been taken over by Mormonism, at least in the west. REPEATEDLY and by multiple sources I was told the Mormon influence was destructive, slipshod and crony-like. The Boulder Dam Area Council was taken over summarily by Mormons. I wouldn't put my kids through scouts now. I'd put them through CAP or another ranger program.

Demolay is another good organization for boys that I would recommend.

[_Inconceivable]

I was in the program for about 7 years from deacons quorem advisor, asst to scoutmaster.

In our area it was a merit badge mill. It was a shame there were so many boys that advanced that didn't know much about first aid among other things.

The campouts and hikes were great. Nearly all that attended loved them. I Really hated the fluffed up recognition. Acheivement was a facade.

The Duty to God program pretty much overwhelmed every leader and scout in the system for the first several years.

Scouting for at least the 12-13 years olds was synonomous with "being active" in the church. This is a boy's life in the church at that age.

[_Gazelam]

I had some gresat leaders in scouts when I was a kid. One was a former air force pilot from vietnam, who was then an FBI agent investigating the las vegas mob. Another was a colector of guns, full auto with laser sights was very cool in 1983.

Campouts were great. We even got to build a cannon at one point and blow holes in the side of a mountain. I loved learnign how to do wilderness survival and build a proper fire etc..

The part that sucked was the idiotic songs and dances. The peripheral stuff.

I got disilliusioned (spellcheck) when I was supposed to get my Eagle. I did everything but the final interview. I blew it off and then I was too old to get it.

Scouts is what you make it to be. It can be as cool or as silly as you want it to be.

Midnight capture the flag in a thick forest is alot of fun. Singing "Robert Baden Powel had many scouts" with all the accompanying dance moves stinks when your 16 years old and trying not to be a nerd.

[_Moniker]

I REALLY liked being a scout. I looked forward to camping trips and outings, merit badges, etc. I got disillusioned when as a 15 y/o boy I was ostracized in my troop after the wards were shifted to consolidate the middle class families with the lower class families in order for the upper middle class families to have their own ward. The misbehaving dinks in the new ward banded with those from the old ward and, lower classes being a**holes, proceeded to ruin scout camp by bullying and exposing themselves repeatedly to me. I came back from scout camp a mental wreck. When I spoke up about the treatment I was summarily told to not tell anyone and "boys will be boys".

Scouting has been taken over by Mormonism, at least in the west. REPEATEDLY and by multiple sources I was told the Mormon influence was destructive, slipshod and crony-like. The Boulder Dam Area Council was taken over summarily by Mormons. I wouldn't put my kids through scouts now. I'd put them through CAP or another ranger program.

Demolay is another good organization for boys that I would recommend.

Oh! Sorry that happened to you Mercury. Obviously the adults that were complacent acted inappropriately and negligently!


My thoughts on scouting: My son does scouting and he loves it. Yet, it's not forced and if he ever decided he would no longer desire to participate I would respect that wish. I understand, though, that some parents want to encourage their children to continue on (with whatever a child starts -- music, baseball, etc...) to instill a certain ethic, yet, I think there may come a time when it's okay to go ahead and let a child stop participating if it's not really their "thing". If there is an inordinate amount of social pressure to continue I could see how this may make it a bit more complicated.

[_Scottie]

Scouting wasn't a huge deal in my ward. We were encouraged to go, but it wasn't seen as a terrible thing if we didn't.

My beef with scouting is the mismatch of funds and activities between the young men and young women.

The young men get activities like snowmobiling, water skiing, campouts, canoing, fishing, etc. While the young women got homemaking lessons, or learning about licked cupcakes. Woo hoo. The boys are on jet ski's and the girls are learning to knit. Oh sure, every once in a while the young men will throw the young women a bone and take them with and call it "combined youth activity".

I remember going to a pizza fundraiser for the young women. It was $5 a plate, so $10 for my wife (at the time) and I. I gave them a $20 and told them to keep the change. Not much, but they acted like they weren't sure what to do with the extra $10! Like it was so foreign for them to get anything above and beyond the $5 a plate.

[_Jersey Girl]

Scouting is not mandatory though some LDS wards make is so.

What do you mean by making it mandatory? Parents can't opt out?

Speaking from my own experience, it's mandatory the way anything in the church is mandatory, through guilt. Scouting is the YM program, therefore inactivity in scouting makes a boy inactive in the youth church program, and you know how the church feels about inactive members.

Does the Church emphasize Girl Scouts for the young ladies or something equivalent?

Heck no - the Girl Scouts advocate tolerance for homosexuals and independence of women, and don't exclude athiests. Can't have that.

I try to stay out of these scouting threads because I inevitably become irritated. You are right, skippy, Girl Scouts isn't emphasized in the LDS Church. That's why the girls go outside the church for their scouting program.