This was an interesting thread--the discussions board at MADB has been slow lately, so it livened the place up a bit. For those of you who can't read MADB, here's the actual OP;
I had put up a thread about the word "telestial," but can no longer find it. Perhaps it has been removed as unsuitable. (Edit, apparently it's some place here, but I can't find it.) In any case, I believe that genuine dialogue should not be curbed to suit some politically correct aim. We are adults here, and it is important that information flows back and forth without hinderance, provided we don't engage in name calling, stomach punches, etc.
My first issue is God. Yes, Mormons have a different view of God than do Christians. Let me begin by explaining what I believe to be the biblical view of God, and the view historically taught within the Apostolic Church.
First, there is only One Eternal God, from everlasting to everlasting. According to Isa. 43:10, before Him there was NO god formed, and there shall be no god formed after Him. He is the Only God, without beginning or end. He is NOT and exalted human. He is Spirit, for the Bible clearly teaches that God is Spirit and that those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. Christians are, then, monotheistic, or believing in only ONE eternal God. Here is a short article on the Christian view of God, His Nature and Power:
God and His Providence
by Rev. William G. Most
One God
In the first article of the Apostle's Creed we express our belief in the existence of God. He is a pure spirit, that is, He has no matter at all, and no parts.
We call Him Father, since He is the supreme source of everything, the one "from whom all Fatherhood in heaven and on earth takes its name" (Ephesians 3. 16).
We call Him the Creator, since He has made all things , not out of some previously existing material, but simply out of nothing. He has infinite power. By just willing it, He can do all things. So in Genesis 1 He merely spoke and said, "Let there be light." And light came into existence. Really, He did not speak in our sense of the word; He merely willed it, and it came into being.
To describe Him we use the word attributes. These are the perfections that He has, which we attribute to Him by comparison with creatures. Some of His attributes belong to Him by His very nature; others belong to Him in relation to the world He made.
The chief attributes that are His by His very nature are His unchangeability and eternity. He is unchangeable. Since He has the fullness of being, He could not change into anything higher or better, or acquire anything: "I, the Lord, do not change," He said through the prophet Malachi (3:6). We call Him eternal, not in the sense that there always was time, and in it He always was. No, since He is unchangeable there is no past or future for Him: all is one unchanging present. So when we say that He made the world--a past expression--to His divine mind it registers as present! "Before the mountains were born, before you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are, O God" (Psalm 90:2).
There are attributes that follow upon God's relation to this world. He is omnipotent or almighty because "nothing is impossible to God" (Luke 1:37). The book of Sirach 23:20 says: "Before they were made, all things were known to Him." So He is all-knowing, or omniscient. We say He is present everywhere. In Jeremiah 23:24 He said: "Do I not fill heaven and earth?" Yet He is not present in the sense of taking up space, as we do: we say a Spirit is present wherever it causes an effect. He caused all things to come into being, and keeps them in being. Since He rewards good and punishes evil we call Him all-just. St. Paul wrote (Romans 2:6): "He will repay each one according to his works." He guides and directs the paths of all creatures, and hence the First Epistle of Peter 5:7 can say: "Cast all your care upon Him, for He takes care of you". He is all-good since He is the author of everything that is good, and wills eternal good to us. Psalm 136:1, "Give thanks to the Lord for He is good."
It is strictly correct to say that God is love, since if we said that He has love, there would be a duality, two. But He is totally unity. He is identified with each of His attributes. So He is mercy, He is justice, and therefore in some way, mercy and justice are identified in Him. His justice is His mercy is Himself, and so on for all His attributes.
Thus, Christians see God as unchangeable, immutable and infinite. There never was a time that God was not God. He is Spirit, He is our Creator, and He is above and transcends creation. He is NOT that creation. According to Romans, chapter 1, it is sinful and idolatrous to exchange the Creator for His creation. God is totally other! He is certainly not the "same species" as man. Man is a creation, God is Creator.
Now that I have established that, for Christians, God is ONE, we can go on to the doctrine of the Trinity. Does the Trinity mean three gods, as some teach? Or, does it mean there is Only One God who eternally exists as three personal centers of being within the One Godhead? Of course, Christians believe the latter. Mormons often reject the Trinity out of hand, not understanding, I believe, what Christians actually believe.
If I might share with you an example from nature regarding triunity. The simple substance of water, H2o, can be placed in a test tube and exposed to certain laboratory conditions. Those conditions can impact water so that within the same test tube we have the substance of water in solid, liquid and vapor forms. Same substance, three manifestations simultaneously existing. So, the "substance" of God can simultaneously be three manifestations or personal centers of beings within the One Godhead.
Men cannot fully understand this, however we should remember that God is God and not a man. He is infinite, we are finite. He can do all things, we cannot. God can surely have an internal relationship within Himself of three centers of beings, for He has taught this explicitly in Scripture. Even the Book of Mormon is Sabellian in its view of the Godhead and not tri-theistic, as is Mormonism today. The Shema of Judaism is the most sacred pronouncement of that faith. Translated, it states:
"Hear O Israel, Jehovah your Elohim is One Jehovah." (Translated in the King James as "the Lord your God is one Lord.") This means that Elohim is Jehovah, and supports the Christian view of the Godhead as Trinity.
Perhaps we can engage in some discussion here on an adult level, and perhaps the powers that be will allow this thread to stand. We have significant differences - one view is Christian, and the other is not. It is time to honestly view our differences, without simply saying "Mormons are Christian." If Mormonism's doctrine is not biblical and Apostolic, it is different from Christian.
This post has been edited by Carmella: Yesterday, 07:01 AM
Now, you can decide for yourself if Carmella sounded like she cared what LDS said.
She was from CARM--Kate said that she posts there as Athanasius.
I thought she came in with a chip on her shoulder and from the first few posts, it's obvious that others felt it.
Lachoneous and MormonMason were two posters who offered up good information and did not get personal...but she deflected their efforts-naturally. Unfortunately, she started to get upset, showing it with little digs and then a few of the board regulars came in and started needling her--ridiculing and not engaging any of her arguments...and then she really started to lose it.
But was everyone rude to her? No. But when a few start the gloating and the silly pictures posted to ridicule and the off-topic jabs, it starts to feel like they are ganging up.
Nemesis apparently got tired of it (I wouldn't be surprised if Nemesis was the mask for one of the regulars on the thread who was ridiculing) and banned her. I wish they weren't so hasty with the bannings.