It was precisely the shallowness and absurdity of EV thought (above and beyond Mormon thought) which kept me thinking of the Church as special for so many years. I always reasoned to myself that if I found Mormonism to be false, that would necessitate my becoming an agnostic, as the other Christian belief systems I'd been around were total JV league.
That's one prophecy which has come to pass. Those I know who have gone from Mormonism to EV-born-againism are those who withdrew from the Church for cultural reasons, but who still need their emotionally charged religious "fix". They're addictive personalities.
New *OFFICIAL* Church Website About Polygamy
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_Trevor
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Thama wrote:It was precisely the shallowness and absurdity of EV thought (above and beyond Mormon thought) which kept me thinking of the Church as special for so many years.
Are you referring to the EV thought of the average member, or as represented by its scholars?
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
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_Thama
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Trevor wrote:Thama wrote:It was precisely the shallowness and absurdity of EV thought (above and beyond Mormon thought) which kept me thinking of the Church as special for so many years.
Are you referring to the EV thought of the average member, or as represented by its scholars?
I haven't found any Christians who I could call "scholars" with a straight face that would ever admit to being EVs. Though, if by "scholar" you mean to include ministers, preachers, and those who fill up the shelves of their bookstores, then I see little difference between their thought and that of the average member.
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_Trevor
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Thama wrote:I haven't found any Christians who I could call "scholars" with a straight face that would ever admit to being EVs. Though, if by "scholar" you mean to include ministers, preachers, and those who fill up the shelves of their bookstores, then I see little difference between their thought and that of the average member.
I would submit that you need to look harder. I may not agree with EV beliefs any more than you do, but they can no more be pigeonholed by the thoughts of the least informed of them than an unlearned atheist or Mormon can.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
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_Thama
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Trevor wrote:Thama wrote:I haven't found any Christians who I could call "scholars" with a straight face that would ever admit to being EVs. Though, if by "scholar" you mean to include ministers, preachers, and those who fill up the shelves of their bookstores, then I see little difference between their thought and that of the average member.
I would submit that you need to look harder. I may not agree with EV beliefs any more than you do, but they can no more be pigeonholed by the thoughts of the least informed of them than an unlearned atheist or Mormon can.
I see what you are saying, though I disagree. In my experience, looking for learned intellectuals among the Evangelical branch of Protestantism is akin to looking for learned intellectuals among the FLDS branch of Mormonism. Both make up the lunatic fringe of their belief systems, and the sort of people who are attracted to them are often attracted for the same reasons that they are prone to reject "worldly" learning or logic.
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_Trevor
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Thama wrote:I see what you are saying, though I disagree. In my experience, looking for learned intellectuals among the Evangelical branch of Protestantism is akin to looking for learned intellectuals among the FLDS branch of Mormonism. Both make up the lunatic fringe of their belief systems, and the sort of people who are attracted to them are often attracted for the same reasons that they are prone to reject "worldly" learning or logic.
What exactly is your experience? Have you been to a meeting of the Society of Biblical Literature? Do you regularly peruse journals in the disciplines of Biblical Studies, New Testament, Theology, and Religion? I mean, I am not fond of Evangelicals either, but your characterization of these people as the equivalent of FLDS is extreme. Evangelicals are not a "lunatic fringe." They constitute a major Christian movement.
Would you, for instance, call Richard J. Mouw part of a lunatic fringe?
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
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_beastie
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We need to be careful to recognize different branches of the evangelical movement. I know I am often sloppy in this regard, myself.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
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Penn & Teller
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_John Larsen
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_TrashcanMan79
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_Thama
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Trevor wrote:What exactly is your experience? Have you been to a meeting of the Society of Biblical Literature? Do you regularly peruse journals in the disciplines of Biblical Studies, New Testament, Theology, and Religion? I mean, I am not fond of Evangelicals either, but your characterization of these people as the equivalent of FLDS is extreme. Evangelicals are not a "lunatic fringe." They constitute a major Christian movement.
As Beastie notes, I too may be guilty of lumping together different Evangelical groups. However, my experience comes from being born and raised in the South, where Evangelical churches are extremely common. I realize that there isn't a very agreed-upon definition of what groups are considered Evangelical and which are not, though I certainly don't mean it in the sense that Martin Luther did when he described the entire Protestant movement as being "evangelical". I'm talking about the churches with the big "Evangelical" sign out front, the sort with services only slightly exaggerated in the movie "There Will Be Blood"... I've seen services like that, and know many of the people who attend them.
I don't see intellectuals there. None. There's nothing for a thinking person at a service like that. While I don't think Mormonism, Catholicism, or more mainline Protestant sects are correct in their teachings, there's at least a lot to ponder, and you see accomplished professors, doctors, etc. commonly in attendance. The fact that some scholarly champions would arise to defend EV thought in those journals says little about those making up the congregations and ministry to me.
I don't regularly read that sort of material, no, though I've conversed about religion with students and graduates of both Biola (an EV seminary in LA) and more mainstream schools, especially the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (in Wake Forest), and the difference is stunning to me. One group seems trained in theology, the other in showmanship.