The official I'm tired of...

[_Jersey Girl]

Oh, I don't agree with that. Neither does the OP and others appear to agree with that. It would be different (IMHO) if the threads were actually about Mormon apologetics however, they ususally are not and more the case is that they quickly devolve into Peterson minutia.

Just my take and as I stated previously, I could just be cranky.

Even threads that are not about Peterson quickly evolve into being about Peterson when he begins responding. But I strongly believe his manner of interaction on this board is just as responsible for that fact as the manner of interaction of critics on the board.

I suppose that's true, beastie. And I could easily blame my attitude on the disconnect of the "Never", if it weren't for the OP and others whom I believe are ex-LDS on this thread. By my count, I think we have about 4 Never's left on the board, but I don't know everyone's affiliation or lack thereof. So, I don't think it's just that.

You could give me the speech about starting new threads of interest to me and perhaps others (I'm fast derailing here) but I've done that hundreds of times and more often than not, I encounter people who either wish to avoid examination of an issue, can't respond to the point you raised, or just post nonsense. I find myself devolving into nonsense posts more and more often and I think it's due to a pervasive developing state of apathy about message boards in general and the underlying belief that it is a rare occasion when anything thoughtful or meaningful is the product of discussion.

I think I'm genuinely on the road out of town here. It's not just the DCP threads, it's more due to the nature of message boards and that I'm long past believing that anything useful can result in the process especially when there are a number of posters who are just people with whom I'd never associate in real life and there's just no poster on this board who fires me up (intellectually, my thoughts, my ideas, my perspectives and opinions) in any meaningful way.

Definitely cranky.

[_beastie]

Oh, I agree that message boards are inherently flawed mediums. There are times when I'm tempted to quit, as well - but the truth is that message boards do allow you to address topics that often cannot be broached in "real life. I just don't talk about religion with people in real life (outside my children and boyfriend). It's not polite, and pointless. I also rarely talk about politics in real life (outside my children, parents, and boyfriend). Again, not polite and pointless. So it is nice to have someplace, that sometimes - even if not often - does have an interesting conversation about those sort of topics. That's why I keep hanging on, despite the clear and obvious problems with message boards in general.

Plus, I'm with kids all day long, and sometimes even inane and stupid grown up talk is still grown up talk. ;)

[_Jersey Girl]

Ditto to the kids/adults, beastie. Take a gander at this thread:

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7273&start=0

And that's exactly what I'm talking about.

[_Daniel Peterson]

It would be different (IMHO) if the threads were actually about Mormon apologetics however, they ususally are not

That's what floors me. And, oddly, it's a major part of what fascinates me about this place (and certain others of its ilk).

It really does.

Lengthy threads about the potential biases of a book that few if any have actually seen and that several have no intention of ever reading, about an acrostic in an article that few have have actually seen (but nothing about the content of the article itself), about the appearance of people at the FAIR conference but not about the presentations at the FAIR conference, about mythical campaigns of slander that I've supposedly led, and so on and so forth.

I find such lack of substance positively bizarre. And, yes, stunningly vacuous.

[_collegeterrace]

I see it in much the same way as I do when I see ex-LDS appear to be fascinated with alcohol (as in the new thread by collegeterrace). Who cares?

It's just booze.

I mean seriously, it's all well and good to find out what people's preferences are however, between here and RFM's recurring posts such as "What beer should I begin with?" it's entirely strange. For pete sakes, how hard is this? Open a bottle and taste it.

Your ignorance is evident Girl.

But it is not your fault, you have always been an outsider, of both sides of Mormonism.

What is entirely strange to me is how long you have been on these Mormon discussion boards, and still don't fully understand either side of Mormonism.

[_Jersey Girl]

Porter,

I'm going to be perfectly straight up honest with you here.

Your ignorance is evident Girl.

But it is not your fault, you have always been an outsider, of both sides of Mormonism.

Thank you for your non-response. If you had a case to make, Porter, you would have made it.

Instead, I'll make mine.

Being an outsider makes me a keen and objective observer of LDS dynamics. You yourself lack the ability to remain objective, thus your non-response. What I observe in some ex-LDS, certainly not all for some make the transition with their maturity and dignity fully intact, is a strong desire to be a part of the world they feel they missed out on as LDS and to live a "normal" life without the prohibitions of Mormonism and Mormon culture.

Only they don't know what "normal" really is.

Those who brag about what they're drinking are socially on the same level of a "normal" teenager.

Those who regularly discuss masturbation, are socially on the same level of a "normal" teenager.

Those who regularly make off hand sexual references, are socially on the same level of a "normal" teenager.

A quick example, I know of no grown adult male who uses the words "douche" or "douchebag" in "normal" conversation. The last time I heard those words said outloud, they were uttered by kids in Junior High.

If one wants to *be* a part of the real and "normal" world, one might take a moment to observe mature adults who live in the real world, for the kinds of things I see on this board and RFM are evidence of an absence of maturity and the persons who involve themselves in that sort of thing appear to lack the social awareness that they are behaving like teenagers instead of the liberated adults they wish to be.

An outsider can see it clearly, where you (who are still influenced by the conditions of your experience in the church and it's culture) cannot.

Further, the same behaviors that people such as yourself glorify in people like Scratch are simply carry-overs from your life as an LDS and you don't appear to be aware that you are applauding the same types of behaviors/tactics/methods in someone like Scratch, that you level scorn at the church and it's culture for.

I could go on, but I doubt you'll take it seriously or be able to take a step back and see what I see.

What is entirely strange to me is how long you have been on these Mormon discussion boards, and still don't fully understand either side of Mormonism.

My point of reference for how much I understand regarding Mormonism, Mormon culture, the plight of those who exit Mormonism, the issues and possible outcomes that they face are found in the overly defensive non-responsive reactions from people such as yourself when I totally nail it.

If you'd like to know more about my time on boards, feel free to interview me publicly. I haven't spent all these years discussing Mormonism exclusively.

My guess is that you'll never do that because it's easier for you to believe in your self-created myth about why a Jersey Girl is here and what she knows, then to offer a thoughtful response. If you want the answers, ask the questions. If not, don't pretend that you know what you're talking about.

It's just not "normal".

Just so we're crystal clear here, Porter. The objectivity that I refer to is the same objectivity that allows me to interact with one who occassionally still tries to disparage me here and engages in serious conversations with me, and still like him.

[_beastie]

Ditto to the kids/adults, beastie. Take a gander at this thread:

Yeah, that's a problem. Before you give it all up, you could consider putting some of the repeat offenders on ignore (I think you can do that with "friend or foe" option, although I haven't tried it yet)

[_beastie]

That's what floors me. And, oddly, it's a major part of what fascinates me about this place (and certain others of its ilk).

It really does.

Lengthy threads about the potential biases of a book that few if any have actually seen and that several have no intention of ever reading, about an acrostic in an article that few have have actually seen (but nothing about the content of the article itself), about the appearance of people at the FAIR conference but not about the presentations at the FAIR conference, about mythical campaigns of slander that I've supposedly led, and so on and so forth.

I find such lack of substance positively bizarre. And, yes, stunningly vacuous.

Number one, it floors me that you seem to have no concept about why the conflict of interest is pertinent.

Number two, you have no interest in discussing real issues directly related to LDS truth claims. Posters have tried to engage you on those issues, and you are not interested.

So you are part of the problem. Yet you seem to believe that you're just an interested observer. You act like a scientist objectively observing the "bizarre" and "psychologically fascinating" behavior of "subjects" without paying attention to the fact that you continue poking and prodding the "subjects" in a manner that directly affects and even drives their behavior.

I find that positively bizarre.

A good part of the reason the threads you find "vacuous" continue in the manner they do is because of your manner of participating on them. The conflict of interest thread is a great example. It really is funny how you seem incapable of recognizing your own steps in the dance. And sometimes you even are assertively leading the steps of the dance.... all the while proclaiming that the dance is vacuous and dancing is bizarre.

[_Jersey Girl]

Ditto to the kids/adults, beastie. Take a gander at this thread:

Yeah, that's a problem. Before you give it all up, you could consider putting some of the repeat offenders on ignore (I think you can do that with "friend or foe" option, although I haven't tried it yet)

The ignore feature supplies only a partial "ignore". One can still read the quotes of "foes" in the posts of others. I would use it, for example, in the case of SUAS whose intellectually fractured posts are simply noise. I wouldn't use it for someone like Gaz, because I stubbornly believe that I can impact him in some positive way and probably wouldn't stop trying.

[_Jersey Girl]

beastie

It really is funny how you seem incapable of recognizing your own steps in the dance. And sometimes you even are assertively leading the steps of the dance.... all the while proclaiming that the dance is vacuous and dancing is bizarre.

Holy cats, I see my own past experiences on another board in your comments above, beastie. Sometimes when you are engaged in the dance, you are completely unaware that you are one half of a two party exchange and continue on with your part.

I had a poster who attacked me on a regular basis. One episode lasted an entire year. It never occurred to me to withdraw from the exchanges, even when people told me that I should. So, I spent a full year (I'm not joking) responding. The exchanges themselves drove people away from the board and to this day I regret being too stubborn to realize or admit my part in it until long after when I got some perspective about the dynamic.

(Yes, I can go on for an entire year. Just a warning to the general public. ;-)