Question For Mudcat.

[_Jason Bourne]

So if there were no Adam and Eve and there was no fall then the idea of needing Jesus as our savior is false and thus Christianity is not needed and a false religion. Correct?

That would be correct, however I would also point out that there would be no humans if there weren't the first humans so its sort of a moot point in my opinion.

Well no not really. There could be a first modern human that got that way through evolution and that human may not have been Adam.

But thanks for your comments. I have long felt that all the basic premis of Christianity hinges on Adam and Eve and the Fall being a real and literal event. Without it the whole idea of a need for redemption and salvation and Jesus being that savior falls apart. It requires some liberal thinking on this idea to still accept the need for Jesus without the fall.

[_cksalmon]

I have long felt that all the basic premis of Christianity hinges on Adam and Eve and the Fall being a real and literal event. Without it the whole idea of a need for redemption and salvation and Jesus being that savior falls apart. It requires some liberal thinking on this idea to still accept the need for Jesus without the fall.

I believe you've hit the nail squarely on the head, Jason. It's a good point to press.

cks

[_The Nehor]

Nope, not the same person. He was my running-mate in a campaign for mod on the aptly named Mormon Apologetics & Discussion board.

[_Mudcat]

Nope, not the same person. He was my running-mate in a campaign for mod on the aptly named Mormon Apologetics & Discussion board.

Yeah.... I still have a trunk full of Nehor/Mudcat 08 bumper stickers.

I think it was the negative Skeletor ads that pushed it over the top.

[_Mudcat]

Well no not really. There could be a first modern human that got that way through evolution and that human may not have been Adam.

I don't necessarily operate under the assumption that humans evolved from something into humans but... maybe so.

But thanks for your comments. I have long felt that all the basic premis of Christianity hinges on Adam and Eve and the Fall being a real and literal event. Without it the whole idea of a need for redemption and salvation and Jesus being that savior falls apart. It requires some liberal thinking on this idea to still accept the need for Jesus without the fall.

The Bible does say that through one man it fell and through another it was restored, I tend to take that at face value. Emphasis mine, But I think the aspect of the Fall is key... not neccessarily so with Adam and Eve, in my opinion the reference to them may have been allegorical. If man did not Fall from favor with God and through that fall change in nature, then you could be right... it might be, contrary to what I deem as spiritual affirmation, all be bunk.

JB, I am taking a wild guess from your posts so far, that you are atheist/agnostic?

Do you think humanity is 'normal' in comparison to other species?

[_Jason Bourne]

Do you think humanity is 'normal' in comparison to other species?

No.

Actually I am an active participating LDS that has questions and some concerns about some things LDS. I have also been exploring issues related to Christianity with the same critical method I have used to examine LDS doctrine, history and truth claims. Right now I live my spiritual life by faith. I do believe in Jesus Christ and his atonement for man kind. But I see some problems and holes and this one I bring up seems like the largest one to me currently.

[_Mudcat]

But I see some problems and holes and this one I bring up seems like the largest one to me currently.

I admit, its an interesting 'hole'. I suppose the existence of God would be the biggest hole I have contended with.