"I'm Drinking My First Coffee Tonight"

[_Ray A]

The actual history here seems to indicate that, far from being a myth, the acceptance of the WoW as a commandment is historical fact. And they, as we know Ray, can be stubborn things. I can provide numerous quotes from Church leaders, going back generations, to indicate how the WoW has been understood from a time long before I was born. Need I do that Ray? Must I provide publically what you, I, and everyone else already knows?

Go ahead and provide them. In the meantime I'll refer to a blog post by LoaP. Even an apologetic blog might help you understand some more: The Development of the Word of Wisdom.

You have rejected the Gospel Ray, and you have lost, in the process, your understanding of it.

Woe is me.

[_Jason Bourne]

You might be interested in this, from the Doctrine & Covenants, Student Manual:

Although the revelation of the Word of Wisdom was received on 27 February 1833, its acceptance by the individual members of the Church was gradual. On 9 September 1851, some eighteen years after it was given, the Patriarch to the Church, John Smith, delivered a talk to the Saints on the Word of Wisdom. Following his address, President Brigham Young arose and proposed to the general conference that all Saints formally covenant to abstain from tea, coffee, tobacco, whiskey, and "all things mentioned in the Word of Wisdom" ("Minutes of the General Conference," Millennial Star, 1 Feb. 1852, p.35). The motion was accepted unanimously and became binding as a commandment for all Church members thereafter.

The manual is inaccurate. Or if if became binding it was not enforced. One could smoke, drink, use coffee and still go to the temple. Coffee was a regular drink of 19th century saints. BY owned brewery.

Keep in mind that there are milk toast explanations iin much of the current manuals so testimonies don't get disturbed.

[_Droopy]

http://www.mormonfortress.com/wow1.html


This is an excellent encapsulation of the problems encountered here, and a stiff antidote to the decontextualized rationalizations of Jason, Ray, and Harmony in this thread.

The WoW is now, and has been since at least the later half of the nineteenth century, the equivalent of a commandment. Jason and other here who do not seem to understand what a Prophet is, what the purpose of the First Presidency and The Twelve is, and how in by what process revelation is received and integrated into Church culture and practice, including the manner in which Gospel knowledge and practices develops and evolves as the people are prepared or circumstances dictate, would probably be well advised to cease nitpicking at every jot and tittle of the history they half understand and begin living it, as this is, according to the Gospel, where a testimony of any principle ultimately arises.

[_Ray A]

http://www.mormonfortress.com/wow1.html


This is an excellent encapsulation of the problems encountered here, and a stiff antidote to the decontextualized rationalizations of Jason, Ray, and Harmony in this thread.

And you have excellently misread it.

The WoW is now, and has been since at least the later half of the nineteenth century, the equivalent of a commandment.

That's not what you initially wrote:

Brigham Young made the Wow a commandment because it was, as counsel, not being taken seriously enough by the Saints of the time. BY had the authority to do so, and according to the will of the Lord, he did.

Here are the relevant excerpts from Mike Ash's article, with my bold:

It’s obvious from reading the minutes, however, that at least some Far West council members were overly concerned with relatively minor infractions. Elder James Emmet, for example, objected to making George Hinkle a High Counselor, “because he was to [sic] noisy.” (Ibid., 123.) Early Latter-day Saints frequently charged other members with odd or humourous offenses including things such as “‘murmuring’” and “‘joining with the world in dance.’” We also read about members in the Salt Lake Valley being charged with “excommunicable offenses” such as “refusing to accept ZCMI scrip as wages, subscribing to the Salt Lake Tribune, and buying from Gentile establishments.” Generally, members were rarely excommunicated for such odd offenses, but instead were brought before a High Counsel. In “the majority of cases... it seems that the attitude of the defendant [would] determined whether he was excommunicated (or disfellowshipped) more than the offense per se.”

As historian, Richard D. Poll, has observed, for instance, under the leadership of “Joseph Smith and Brigham Young some Mormons were excommunicated for attending non-Mormon dances, failing to accept mission calls, using tobacco and intoxicants, gossiping, failing to tithe, Sabbath-breaking, patronizing non-Mormon businesses, and failing to follow counsel.

This fluid interpretation can be seen in the comments of early leaders. Hyrum Smith for example, possibly concerned over the rigors associated with the trip to Missouri, told the members of the Kirtland Camp to “not to be particular regarding the Word of Wisdom.” (History of the Church 3:95; hereafter HC.) In June 1843, Apostle Heber C. Kimball advised the members of the Lima Branch to not “nip and tuck at the Word of Wisdom, but stress the integrity of one’s heart.” (Times and Seasons, June 11, 1843, 4:316.) Even the prophet, who in 1838 Joseph Smith urged Word of Wisdom observance (HC 3:15), “never interpreted the revelation as demanding total abstinence, but stressed moderation and self-control.”

As gospel knowledge grew LDS leaders began to recognize the wisdom of D&C 89 and efforts appeared periodically to commit to greater adherence. “Additional evidence of serious concern,” notes Peterson, “is seen in the fact that in December, 1850, Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, Parley P. Pratt, and other Church [leaders] met in Young’s ‘upper room’ to pray. Here they concluded to ‘renew the Word of Wisdom.’” (Quoted in Peterson, 44.) By 1862 Brigham Young had curbed his own habits and encouraged the members to curb their bad Word of Wisdom habits as well. Then by 1867 Brigham Young began campaigning for a stronger emphasis on the Word of Wisdom.

Joseph F. Smith, fifth President of the Church, felt “the reason ...why the Word of Wisdom was given not by commandment or constraint was that at that time . . . it would have brought every man, addicted to the use of these noxious things, under condemnation.” He reasoned that a merciful God would give individuals a chance to overcome undesirable habits before bringing them under law. (Conference Reports, October, 1913, p. 14) Nevertheless, Joseph F. Smith felt that it was time for stricter observance. In 1902 he “urged stake presidents and others to refuse recommends to flagrant violators but to be somewhat liberal with old men who used tobacco and old ladies who drank tea. Habitual drunkards, however, were to be denied temple recommends.


Five years later Heber J. Grant became Church President and in 1921, adherence to the Word of Wisdom was made a requirement for admission to the temple.

There is no suggestion that Brigham Young "made it a commandment", and this was the myth created by Joseph Fielding Smith.

And for your benefit, Section 89:

1 A Word OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

[_Jason Bourne]

http://www.mormonfortress.com/wow1.html


This is an excellent encapsulation of the problems encountered here, and a stiff antidote to the decontextualized rationalizations of Jason, Ray, and Harmony in this thread.

The WoW is now, and has been since at least the later half of the nineteenth century, the equivalent of a commandment. Jason and other here who do not seem to understand what a Prophet is, what the purpose of the First Presidency and The Twelve is, and how in by what process revelation is received and integrated into Church culture and practice, including the manner in which Gospel knowledge and practices develops and evolves as the people are prepared or circumstances dictate, would probably be well advised to cease nitpicking at every jot and tittle of the history they half understand and begin living it, as this is, according to the Gospel, where a testimony of any principle ultimately arises.

No Droopy I have just read the real history. If it was binding as you say. BY himself broke it. Are you saying BY should not have had a temple recommend.

And by the way, can you post without personal attacks? It might be a good new year resolution for you.

[_Jason Bourne]

by the way I think Mike Ash is pretty down the line LDS

[_Yoda]

I find it interesting that over the last 10 years, there has already been a HUGE relaxation of drinking Coke, Pepsi, and other caffeinated sodas within the Church.

Although one could always get a temple recommend even if Pepsi or Coke was consumed, it was still sort of a "dirty little secret" that was looked down upon my members if you were seen doing it.

In contrast, at the last Ward potluck I attended a couple of months ago, drinks of choice that were served in 2 liters were: Cheerwine (a Southern version of Cherry Coke), Dr. Pepper, Pepsi, Coke, Diet Coke, Mountain Dew. (None of these were caffeine free versions).

Also, when my in-laws were finishing their term as Mission Presidents a few years ago, we visited them in Texas, and stayed with them over Christmas. My mother in law said, "Oh, Grandpa just went to the grocery store, and bought a 12 pack of Pepsi for you, Liz."

I'm assuming that since my father in law was both the mission president at the time, and has also served as an Area Authority, he didn't think he was going to hell for buying me Pepsi. LOL

Currently the favorite kid hangout is Starbucks, for members and non members alike. It would not surprise me if the rules loosen on coffee in another 5-10 years.

[_harmony]

Currently the favorite kid hangout is Starbucks, for members and non members alike. It would not surprise me if the rules loosen on coffee in another 5-10 years.

Some people are going to have to die before that happens. Somehow I can't imagine BKP voting for this one.

[_Ray A]

I find it interesting that over the last 10 years, there has already been a HUGE relaxation of drinking Coke, Pepsi, and other caffeinated sodas within the Church.

I'm not sure how strict it was at the "ordinary member" level even going back 34 years. I knew lots of missionaries who drank coke, including several of my companions, and some talked about bishops who drank coke.

One interesting experience I had was with my trainer. One day in an investigator's home he offered us some rum cake, and let me say it looked like more rum than cake, which soaked up the soft-cake. I desisted, thinking it would wrong, but my companion heartily devoured a couple of pieces. After we left the home he said something like, "I feel a bit light-headed, but it's a good feeling"

[_Gadianton]

I visited their home in the past and saw a coffee maker on their counter in the kitchen.

Ah, gramps, you really are one of those who knows what it means to be a TBM. I've had so many similar experiences. A very good friend of mine who had been in apostasy for years, a man of exceeding wickedness, of many, many fornications, and an up and coming binge drinker, became very upset with his girlfriend when she moved in with him. Why? Because he came home one day, and there was a coffee pot on the kitchen counter!