Jason Bourne wrote: But Let's ask Jersey. She is non LDS. Jersey did you see this book as simply a book that discloses some of the difficult issues and then puts an apologetic spin on things?
No, no and no. If it supplied an apologetic sugar coating, I would be among the first to say so since I am not pro-Mormonism.
My one and only complaint about the book is that it's difficult for me to reference. It would take hours for me (which I do not have) to find the passages where Bushman raises a controversy, actually notes possible motives (dishonesty, for example) and then moves on having left the reader to draw his/her own conclusions. I went back to the ZLMB Book Club to see if I had mentioned anything there about his treatment of controversies/motives and I did find one comment:
Lady Sundancer wrote:There is something that the author does and continues to do throughout the remainder of the book, which I find entirely fascinating. He relates a series of episodes and then drops in a line, seemingly from out of nowhere, almost as if he is talking to himself and it is the exact thing a critic would conclude after reading the previous portions of the book.
Bushman tells us about the religious struggles and questions on the part of Joseph Jr.'s grandparents and parents. He takes great care to tell us about Lucy's struggle to find a church or religion and how difficult that has been for her, and eventually tells us how Lucy chose a Methodist church (at least for a time) and that Joseph Sr. and some of the boys did not participate. The family seems a bit divided in their search for the right church and the right religion. And then...from out of nowhere, Bushman says THIS on page 26 & 27:
"If there was a personal motive for Joseph Smith Jr.s revelations, it was to satisfy his family's religious want and, above all, to meet the need of his oft-defeated, unmoored father."
That is exactly what I conclude after reading about the families search! Yet, Bushman leaves it at that and moves on. He continues to do this in upcoming chapters. I will post those excerpts as they come our way
I so miss Z...
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
For some believing members the book is a revelation that challenges their testimony big time. Joseph being shown to be a con man and cheap crook tends to do that. One good friend and his wife both still attend(though he goes more to support the kids activities) but have not been back to the Temple after reading the book. He had to talk her out of having her name removed from the Church. They live in Sandy and the social pressure would be pretty bad as well as his business would probably bankrupt fast if either left 'the fold'. Their business is patronized mainly by fellow members(a nice restaurant) and they have seen the results of others who left in the area.
Others I know read the book and the reality in it is so far removed from what is taught in Sunday School and Priesthood that they left quickly after asking about it in the meetings and being blown off.
Lies do come back to haunt the liars. The book is fairly innocent in how it presents things but is much more than many long time members can take as they have been taught outright lies for so long. The idea of rationalizing to stay a member is foolish. Hiding the truth is not what honest people do. Presenting the real truth a little at the time appears to be designed to slowly persuade members that truth is truth even if it isn't really truth as they have been taught. It is still a lie but is now believable for some.
JoetheClerk wrote:For some believing members the book is a revelation that challenges their testimony big time. Joseph being shown to be a con man and cheap crook tends to do that. One good friend and his wife both still attend(though he goes more to support the kids activities) but have not been back to the Temple after reading the book. He had to talk her out of having her name removed from the Church. They live in Sandy and the social pressure would be pretty bad as well as his business would probably bankrupt fast if either left 'the fold'. Their business is patronized mainly by fellow members(a nice restaurant) and they have seen the results of others who left in the area.
Others I know read the book and the reality in it is so far removed from what is taught in Sunday School and Priesthood that they left quickly after asking about it in the meetings and being blown off.
Lies do come back to haunt the liars. The book is fairly innocent in how it presents things but is much more than many long time members can take as they have been taught outright lies for so long. The idea of rationalizing to stay a member is foolish. Hiding the truth is not what honest people do. Presenting the real truth a little at the time appears to be designed to slowly persuade members that truth is truth even if it isn't really truth as they have been taught. It is still a lie but is now believable for some.
So Joe, you would say the book is not an attempt to disclose difficult issues then do apologetics like TD proposes. correct?
