Anyone offer a little advice?

[_mms]

[But I am struggling. (by the way, Still going to Church--sit in the back and try not to be bothered by how little people seem to know about their church, remembering that I was there.

How do you know that they know quite little. Maybe they think that you know quite little. Have a constructive conversation and see what happens. You may be surprised about their knowledge.

Again, I have been instructed not to talk about it. Why do you think that is, Why Me? Why do you think two bishops and a member of the Stake Presidency have asked me not to have "constructive conversation[s]" about it?

[_why me]

How do you know that they know quite little. Maybe they think that you know quite little. Have a constructive conversation and see what happens. You may be surprised about their knowledge.

Now of course, one must ask just how much anyone knows about their faith. I would assume not much.

Why me, you are perfecting the art of contradiction.

It may seem so. But life is never quite simple and it is full of contradictions. In my post, it all depends on what is much. I would say that most people do not know much about their faith but they do know a little. And it is this little that may surprise him.

[_AlmaBound]

Really, I don't think so.

Of course you don't. From where I sit, however, your statement that "faith is doubt" is pretty incoherent.

To have absolute proof means that a person does not need faith. To have absolute evidence means that a person does not need faith. Thus, faith is doubt since somthing has not been proven.

Oh. Well there you have it.

Nothing wrong in sinning.

Well that's good to know. You won't mind if I steal your stuff, then.

Seriously, though, I think "faith" is not so much about the belief as it is the object of the belief.

F'rinstance, you can faith in someone who tells you something, but then later it turns out that what they said was a lie.

Then, if that person tells you something else, you might have a little bit of doubt about whether to believe the person again.

So you can believe something or someone, and put your faith in that person or thing without having perfect evidence, but then when you start to find out things about that object or person that ring hollow or untrue, then you might have some doubts start to creep in, based on that negative evidence.

So yeah, I think our points of view about faith and doubt are far apart from each other. But no worries, I still think you are fun.

[_solomarineris]

P.S. Just a tip - when you do stay home from church, doing a little housework while she is gone does WONDERS. She may even encourage you to stay home more often!

Absolutely correct!
You are a wise man. Doing simple things to help her does wonders. (In any situation).

[_Dr. Shades]

Thanks for the background, mms, but you never told us what you wanted advice about.

So. . . what do you want advice about?

[_Inconceivable]

Black Moclips--sounds like we are in the same boat. I have been forthcoming with my bishop and even the Stake Presidency, but I do not discuss things with "average" ward members, as I have been asked not to.

I did the same thing.

We are taught from a young age that being a faith destroyer is far worse than even farting in a friend's scuba tank.

As you know, this is another lie. Being a faith destroyer is not necessarily evil if it is a false belief - whether you have something to offer in it's place or not.

Muddying up the air of a friend is always wrong. Always.

[_JonasS]

Do you know why you doubt? You are asking in the wrong place. People here will feed your doubt. Look for answers within yourself. Screw logic. Nothing is logical. I was on the same spiralling tract towards atheism and losing my faith. It made me feel crap. I stopped and I made a decision. I wasn't going to seek answers in places like this and I was going to look only in primary sources. Nature helped me form that decision. Since I have been feeling much better. It's all about trust.

A few weeks ago I had an epiphany. One of my biggest fears was that is the church was wrong my soul would be dammed and Id go to hell. But actually what is there to worry about? Does it really matter?

[_BishopRic]

Hmmmm, interesting. I find that when you do allow yourself to find truth, without bias to the source, it IS in fact logical.

[_JonasS]

Hmmmm, interesting. I find that when you do allow yourself to find truth, it IS in fact logical.

And how much of Abstract Maths, Quantum Physics and Matrix Mechanics do you find logical? Or even comprehendable? Are they not truths? They are more deep and fundamental than most things in human nature. They are as close to understanding depths beyond our comprehension as we are attainable at this time (including vectors). God (any form of deity you so wish to imagine, the deity that forms everything) created things far beyond logic. Truth is not always logical. You can think everything is logical. but is it really? Are you even logical? Humans baffle me at times.

[_BishopRic]

[But I am struggling. (by the way, Still going to Church--sit in the back and try not to be bothered by how little people seem to know about their church, remembering that I was there.

How do you know that they know quite little. Maybe they think that you know quite little. Have a constructive conversation and see what happens. You may be surprised about their knowledge.

Now of course, one must ask just how much anyone knows about their faith. I would assume not much.

I've never heard anything from an apologist that I didn't already "know."

Of course there is a big difference between "know" and believe to be true.