Why me's "Smith was Human" excuse..

[_why me]

OK, so Joseph Smith was a human male and made mistakes. Fine. Let's go with this.

Further, is there any behavior that disqualifies one from receiving inspiration from the HG? Is one worthy to receive divine direction if they are behaving in despicable ways. Is the "priesthood power" independent of behavior or worthiness? Does ones actions even matter when it comes to being a witness for God? Are there any behaviors that restrict ones ability to commune with God? Might there be some minimal decency needed for God to trust a mere human?

If one's actions require perfection then no one is worthy of god's help or divine direction. To be a witness for god does not mean living in a monastary surrounded by constant prayer. It means living in the world and attempting to do right.

But because we are human we make mistakes and succumb to temptation or sin. And I think that even Hitler could have communed with god if his heart went in that direction and he was willing to forsake his wicked ways. And maybe god would have softened his heart.

But here is the problem with you and other critics. You are full of judgementalism toward Joseph Smith and assumptions that are quite negative. How does it feel to be so judging of someone's actions? Good? Powerful? Supreme?

I will judge Joseph Smith negatively if and when it is proven that he was an awful guy who desired power and was lustful. But I see no proof that that was his motive.

[_why me]

Not everyone lies. And if everyone did, it doesn't make it right.

.. I have my very own sets of rules..

Solo,

This isn't the first time I've had difficulty comprehending your posts. Dude, when you catch someone lying to you, they deservedly lose your trust. This is common ground for us, right?

I've been taught that in order to be truly trusted, I must not lie. Some people read this as don't get caught. I don't. Hell or no hell, it's simply a philosophy of civilized kindness.

Is it nice to be judgemental? When I catch someone lying I tend to wonder why they are lying and if they have a good reason to lie. I try not to judge from the hip.

[_moksha]

The question is, when is one entitled to receive revelation from God?
~td~

TD,

WhyMe will not answer even one of your questions honestly. He can't - just as the Pharisees, on occasion, refused to answer Jesus' questions - damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Would the fact that Truth Dancer's question is ultimately unanswerable by humans perhaps be able to exculpate Why Me?

[_Dr. Shades]

I will judge Joseph Smith negatively if and when it is proven that he was an awful guy who desired power and was lustful. But I see no proof that that was his motive.

I see no proof that that was Warren Jeffs's motive, either. Surely you feel the same.

[_JohnStuartMill]

Their was a reason that he was sealed to so many women during a two year period and being a horny toad was not one of them.

How do you categorically rule this out, why me? You can't.

[_why me]

Their was a reason that he was sealed to so many women during a two year period and being a horny toad was not one of them.

How do you categorically rule this out, why me? You can't.

nothing can be ruled out. But it is unlikely. My take on it is that something occured that made him be in a hurry. Was it god? an Angel? Something happened. But horny toadism seems unlikely. Horny toadism could have been satisfied in other ways than by risking his life by being sealed to several women within a two year time period. Have three women busy every other evening to satisfy his needs would have been one way to go.

To hear him tell it, he was being threatened by an angel. But I don't believe that polygamy was something he delighted in.

[_why me]

I will judge Joseph Smith negatively if and when it is proven that he was an awful guy who desired power and was lustful. But I see no proof that that was his motive.

I see no proof that that was Warren Jeffs's motive, either. Surely you feel the same.

I don't know his motive. I have never met Jeffs and only have news reports about him. And these reports have not been positive. I would have to have more information about him to make a judgement about his motives.

[_harmony]

nothing can be ruled out. But it is unlikely. My take on it is that something occured that made him be in a hurry. Was it god? an Angel? Something happened. But horny toadism seems unlikely. Horny toadism could have been satisfied in other ways than by risking his life by being sealed to several women within a two year time period. Have three women busy every other evening to satisfy his needs would have been one way to go.

You're conveniently forgetting how it all started, why me. Fanny = 1833, long before the angel, long before the so-called revelation, long before the 2 year period of frantic sealings. Fanny can only be described as it was described by those who witnessed it: a dirty little affair. IE: the behavior of a horny toad.

[_harmony]

And if the mobs would have left the LDS alone, he would accomplished much more.

Actually, no. I think if the mobs hadn't killed him, Joseph and his cronies' off-the-charts behaviours would have eventually destroyed the church.

God will not be mocked.

[_truth dancer]

OK, so Joseph Smith was a human male and made mistakes. Fine. Let's go with this.

The question is, when is one entitled to receive revelation from God?

~td~

Maybe you need to ask god. He may give you an answer. I think that we are all entitled to receive revelation regardless of our imperfections as long as we recognize those imperfections and attempt to change. God is patient.

I did and my answer did not align with LDS doctrine.

Again, LDS doctrine is that one must be worthy to receive the gift of the HG, worthy to receive the priesthood, worthy to receive the gifts of eternal life.

So, is a Stk Pres, worthy of his priesthood if he is engulfed in child porn? Is a deacon still able to pass the sacrament if he is out doing drugs on Saturday night and sleeping with his girlfriend?

Let's be real Why Me, you know there are rules and regulations (smile) in the LDS church, teachings that one must be worthy of various blessings, but you give Joseph Smith a free pass because you want to believe he is UNLIKE everyone else.

You may use the "he is just human" as a way to excuse his behavior but you give him a completly different set of rules, and the doctrine changes to accommodate his untoward behavior.

ANYONE else who engaged in similar behavior would not get a free pass.

~td~