Eligibility for Outer Darkness

[_The Nehor]

Yes, I'm such an outcast there.

What is your evidence that this is so? We have observed clear evidence that your bid to become a MADmod was a complete disaster. It's also clear that you are seen as a kind of "outlier," do to your strange confessions re: "revelation." Top this off with the fact that you have never, ever submitted a single substantive post on this board, and we've more or less got an iron-clad case that you are indeed an "outcast" on the MADboard.

Then again, you could always prove me wrong by asserting some kind of authority over there. I'd love to see you design and navigate a thread that proves your "revelations" are entirely legitimate and within the doctrinal framework of the Church. And yes: you *do* have to assert that your impressions are authoritative. Either that, or you have to shrug your shoulders and say, "Uh, I was just hallucinating." See: I'm betting that you are too much of a wienie to put your "revelations" on the line in the midst of the MADites. Go ahead and assert the primacy of your visions, or else admit that they're nothing more than subjective imaginings. To do anything less would be against the spirit of the Church, and thus a kind of toying with apostasy.

[quote[Zarahemla is not in the Great Lakes region. It's Atlantis which was moved to another galaxy. Someday a brave group of explorers will take a Stargate there and bring it back. Thus saith the Nehor.

The Nehor---

Do you really believe that? I am concerned here with genuine belief, and not dumb jokes. Where do you think Zarahemla existed? Are you capable of submitting a substantive answer?[/quote]

My bid to become a Mod? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

That was a JOKE. Everyone got in on it. It was a boring day so I decided to liven it up with a farcical campaign. You think my campaign was serious when some of my campaign positions were the compulsory eating of asparagus, free corsets, and a promise to destroy all opposition? It was a joke through and through. The mods chimed in, I got an evangelical to be my faux runningmate (a mod runningmate?), and basically did everything I could to make people laugh. If I actually wanted to be a mod (I don't) that would not be the method I would use. Still, a false allegation never ends for you. Interviews are interrogations and jokes are serious political campaigns.

As to my revelations, they're not authoritative. I never claimed they were. I don't have the keys that would enable me to declare such a thing. I haven't shared here what was actually communicated here and have no intention of ever doing so. I don't claim they are authoritative and I don't claim I was hallucinating. I accept neither of your choices and deny your authority to limit me to those choices and deny that that is against the spirit of the Church (as if an apostate like you would know what that even is). I also don't see how this is at all relevant to proving that I am not an outcast. I suppose I could solicit a petition there requesting affirmations that I'm not an outcast but that sounds time-consuming and boring and I just don't care enough.

I am capable of submitting a substantive. I have no idea where Zarahemla is. I doubt my Atlantis supposition above is correct.

[_The Nehor]

The Nehor claimed, when questioned here, that he "stopped" doing substantial posts on MDB because he couldn't take "this place" seriously. What gave the lie to that were his equally flippant posts on MAD.

He's a total joker. And he's probably neck deep in cog. diss.

No, the only reason I stayed is that I'm a joker. I do sometimes discuss things seriously on MADB when the topic interests me. It rarely does. I prefer discussing doctrines and most of the threads are about news pieces or pure speculation. So I entertain myself (and others) by dropping one-liners and cracking jokes. I feel no shame about this.

[_Yoda]

As to my revelations, they're not authoritative. I never claimed they were. I don't have the keys that would enable me to declare such a thing. I haven't shared here what was actually communicated here and have no intention of ever doing so. I don't claim they are authoritative and I don't claim I was hallucinating. I accept neither of your choices and deny your authority to limit me to those choices and deny that that is against the spirit of the Church

I will back Nehor here. It is entirely possible to receive personal revelation, and have that revelation not go against the spirit of the Church. Nehor claims to have received personal revelation from God which is helping him live his life. Who am I, or anyone else, to doubt him?

Also, how is Nehor claiming to have received revelation going against the doctrine of the Church? We are ALL entitled to receive personal revelation for our own welfare and for the welfare of our families.

I also don't see how this is at all relevant to proving that I am not an outcast. I suppose I could solicit a petition there requesting affirmations that I'm not an outcast but that sounds time-consuming and boring and I just don't care enough.

Nehor, as far as you being an outcast on MAD...I must admit, I don't really care whether or not you are.....but you are most certainly not an outcast here.

[_Doctor Scratch]

My bid to become a Mod? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

That was a JOKE. Everyone got in on it. It was a boring day so I decided to liven it up with a farcical campaign. You think my campaign was serious when some of my campaign positions were the compulsory eating of asparagus, free corsets, and a promise to destroy all opposition? It was a joke through and through. The mods chimed in, I got an evangelical to be my faux runningmate (a mod runningmate?), and basically did everything I could to make people laugh.

As I said: you are an outlier, hence the desperation implicit in your "I did everything I could" remark. It's transparently obvious that there is a very serious motive behind your so-called "joking." (Why the need for the caps, The Nehor? Is this a defense mechanism? Some way of making up for your anger at having never been taken seriously?)

If I actually wanted to be a mod (I don't) that would not be the method I would use.

Since you have never contributed a single post of substance, I rather doubt your claim here. You are incapable of any other method. So: you can go ahead and say that you didn't "actually" want to be a mod, but I think we all know that if you were genuinely hoping for a status and power upgrade, this is precisely the way you'd go about it.

As to my revelations, they're not authoritative. I never claimed they were.

Then they are completely meaningless and useless as revelations. They do nothing to forward your claims pertaining to the Church.

I don't claim they are authoritative and I don't claim I was hallucinating. I accept neither of your choices and deny your authority to limit me to those choices and deny that that is against the spirit of the Church

Deny it all you want. Your swift backpedaling here shows how frightened you are at these "small beginnings of apostasy." Whereas before you acted as if your "revelations" were legit evidence in favor of the Church and the existence of God, now you are flip-flopping and flubbing about how they aren't "authoritative."

I also don't see how this is at all relevant to proving that I am not an outcast.

Were you not trying to correct Harmony on matters of doctrine? It's relevant because you seem confused about the nature of revelation. The reason you are confused, I submit, is because you are an outlier/outcast who is teetering on the brink of apostasy. Again, I challenge you to declare the power and authority of your "revelations." I know that you are too scared to do it. You want simultaneously to assert that these visions are legitimate proof of spirituality and God, and yet you lack the conviction to argue that in front of the TBMs on MAD. You are too spineless to assert the authority of your own supposed "convictions."

I suppose I could solicit a petition there requesting affirmations that I'm not an outcast but that sounds time-consuming and boring and I just don't care enough.

Oh, come on now. Just turn it into a "joke." Then your Cup o' Care will be overflowing.

I am capable of submitting a substantive. I have no idea where Zarahemla is. I doubt my Atlantis supposition above is correct.

Saying, "I don't know" is hardly substantive, The Nehor.

[_The Nehor]

As I said: you are an outlier, hence the desperation implicit in your "I did everything I could" remark. It's transparently obvious that there is a very serious motive behind your so-called "joking." (Why the need for the caps, The Nehor? Is this a defense mechanism? Some way of making up for your anger at having never been taken seriously?)

The use of caps was to try to force it into your thick skull. The caps didn't help obviously. A futile effort but I thought I'd try. You're still too malevolent to view things in any way that doesn't cast me in the worst possible light despite there being no evidence for it.

Since you have never contributed a single post of substance, I rather doubt your claim here. You are incapable of any other method. So: you can go ahead and say that you didn't "actually" want to be a mod, but I think we all know that if you were genuinely hoping for a status and power upgrade, this is precisely the way you'd go about it.

You're entitled to your delusions.

Then they are completely meaningless and useless as revelations. They do nothing to forward your claims pertaining to the Church.

Something that brought great peace and happiness is useless because I can't share it with a psycho like you. You have a strange concept of worth. As to not functioning as evidence for my claims, they were never meant to.

Deny it all you want. Your swift backpedaling here shows how frightened you are at these "small beginnings of apostasy." Whereas before you acted as if your "revelations" were legit evidence in favor of the Church and the existence of God, now you are flip-flopping and flubbing about how they aren't "authoritative."

If denying what I never said is backpedaling then I have to conclude that you're not a rational being. I never acted as if they were legit evidence for anyone except me. Your ability to demean people for what they never said is unparalleled.

Were you not trying to correct Harmony on matters of doctrine? It's relevant because you seem confused about the nature of revelation. The reason you are confused, I submit, is because you are an outlier/outcast who is teetering on the brink of apostasy. Again, I challenge you to declare the power and authority of your "revelations." I know that you are too scared to do it. You want simultaneously to assert that these visions are legitimate proof of spirituality and God, and yet you lack the conviction to argue that in front of the TBMs on MAD. You are too spineless to assert the authority of your own supposed "convictions."

I was trying to correct Harmony because she's wrong. I'm not confused about the nature of revelation. You keep imputing false concepts about it to me because it's convenient for your insane vendetta. I do not accept your challenge. To do what you suggest would be against the commands of God. When it comes to obeying Scratch or God I pick God. I suppose that this is more evidence for my impending apostasy.

I did not assert that they are legitimate proof to anyone but me. Using them as they were meant to be used I should not declare them as authoritative. All it would do is amuse a sadistic sex-obsessed creep like you. Not a high priority.

Oh, come on now. Just turn it into a "joke." Then your Cup o' Care will be overflowing.

Are you mentally damaged that you can't discern humor from serious conversation. If so, please discontinue interacting with people. It will only confuse you further you poor confused man.

Saying, "I don't know" is hardly substantive, The Nehor.

I think it's more substantive then posting gossip columns about your favorite apologists as substantive threads. I now request proof that you have ever posted anything more substantive and look forward to this evidence with great interest.

[_Doctor Scratch]

Were you not trying to correct Harmony on matters of doctrine? It's relevant because you seem confused about the nature of revelation. The reason you are confused, I submit, is because you are an outlier/outcast who is teetering on the brink of apostasy. Again, I challenge you to declare the power and authority of your "revelations." I know that you are too scared to do it. You want simultaneously to assert that these visions are legitimate proof of spirituality and God, and yet you lack the conviction to argue that in front of the TBMs on MAD. You are too spineless to assert the authority of your own supposed "convictions."

I was trying to correct Harmony because she's wrong. I'm not confused about the nature of revelation. You keep imputing false concepts about it to me because it's convenient for your insane vendetta. I do not accept your challenge. To do what you suggest would be against the commands of God. When it comes to obeying Scratch or God I pick God. I suppose that this is more evidence for my impending apostasy.

The Nehor: there's no need to get upset and to start flinging insults. I realize that you're now very nervous after having displayed some clear signs of impending apostasy. My advice is that you take a deep breath and try to relax. Just remember: there is a hierarchy of revelation in the Church (which is why you're now trying to renege on your earlier claims). And that's okay. Don't worry: I won't turn you in to the SCMC. But you have been warned, The Nehor! You should beware of such brazen effrontery!

I did not assert that they are legitimate proof to anyone but me. Using them as they were meant to be used I should not declare them as authoritative. All it would do is amuse a sadistic sex-obsessed creep like you. Not a high priority.

The Nehor, The Nehor, The Nehor. Come on, now. If you ever want to be taken seriously, or to be seen as a substantive poster, then you're going to need to cease and desist with the insults and name calling. You are, presumably, a big boy now. Presumably, you're capable of discussing things without stooping to this level.

[_Brackite]

Are you sure you're LDS? Open Section 76 and read up a bit about the Telestial Kingdom.

Here is the Vision of the Telestial Kingdom:

Doctrine and Covenants Section 76:

81 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.
82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.
83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit.
84 These are they who are thrust down to hell.
85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.
86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;
87 And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial.
88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation.
89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;
90 And no man knows it except him to whom God has revealed it.

Now, Here is the Vision of the Terrestrial Kingdom:

Doctrine and Covenants Section 76:

71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.
72 Behold, these are they who died without law;
73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;
74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.
75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.
76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.
77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.
78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.
79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.
80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

I am very glad that I am very much likely going to go to the Terrestrial Kingdom, instead of to the Telestial Kingdom.

[_Brackite]

OD's a mighty lonely place.

Why waste a thread on a fictitious piece of a heightened religious imagination?

Hi Ray,

And the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom, where the 'Righteous' Mormon Men will become gods, and these Mormon Male gods will have many, may wives each, is also a fictitious piece of a heightened religious imagination. From Doctrine And Covenants Section 76, there is No mention that a Man has to get Married in order to reach the highest degree of glory within the Celestial Kingdom. Doctrine And Covenants Section 76 was a 'Vision' given to Joseph Smith and Sydney Rigdon on February 16, 1832. Joseph Smith doesn't give out Doctrine And Covenants until May 16, 1843. That is over 11 Years later, than when he an Sydney Rigdon received Doctrine And Covenants Section 76. From Doctrine And Covenants Section 131, Verse two, it sates that, "And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this border of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];".

And what does the 'new and everlasting covenant of marriage' really mean? Does it simply just means that a Man just needs to get married to one Woman within a Temple? Or does the 'new and everlasting covenant of marriage' really mean that a man needs to get married to more than one Woman within a Temple?
Let us now go to Doctrine And Covenants Section 132, Verses One through four.

Here is this Passage:

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand [b]wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—

2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.

3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.

4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

Now let us go to the 'Revelation' of the third LDS President, John Taylor, which he received in the Year of 1886.

Now, Here is what this 'Revelation' states:

1. My son, John: You have asked me concerning the New and Everlasting Covenant and how far it is binding upon my people.
2. Thus saith the Lord All commandments that I give must be obeyed by those calling themselves by my name unless they are revoked by me or by authority and how can I revoke an everlasting covenant.
3. For I the Lord am everlasting and my everlasting covenants cannot be abrogated nor done away with; but they stand forever.
4. Have I not given my word in great plainness on this subject?
5. Yet have not great numbers of my people been negligent in the observance of my law and the keeping of my commandment, and yet have I borne with them these many years and this because of their weakness because of the perilous times. And furthermore it is more pleasing to me that men should use their free agency in regard to these matters.
6. Nevertheless I the Lord do not change and my word and my covenants and my law do not.
7. And as I have heretofore said by my servant Joseph all those who would enter into my glory must and shall obey my law.
8. And have I not commanded men that if they were Abraham's seed and would enter into my glory they must do the works of Abraham.
9. I have not revoked this law nor will I for it is everlasting and those who will enter into my glory must obey the conditions thereof, even so, Amen

And 2nd LDS President, Brigham Young stated:

Why do we believe in and practise polygamy? Because the Lord introduced it to his servants in a revelation given to Joseph Smith, and the Lord's servants have always practiced it. "And is that religion popular in heaven?" It is the only popular religion there, for this is the religion of Abraham, and, unless we do the works of Abraham, we are not Abraham's seed and heirs according to promise.

( LDS President Brigham Young: Journal of Discourses, Volume #9. )


It now sure looks like that the 'new and everlasting covenant of marriage' means that a Man must into Plural Marriage within a Temple.
However the 'Revelation' of Doctrine and Covenants Section 132, and the 'Revelation' of John Taylor are False Revelations. A Man does Not need to go to a Temple and get married to and sealed to more than on Woman, in order for him to reach the highest degree of glory of the Celestial Kingdom. Now let us go to a true Revelation from the Lord God.

Here is Jacob Chapter Two, Verses 23 through 33:

Jacob 2:23-33:

[23] But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.

[24] Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

[25] Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.

[26] Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.

[27] Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

[28] For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

[29] Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.

[30] For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

[31] For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.

[32] And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

[33] For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.

The Lord God explains in Jacob Chapter Two, within Verse 28, Why He commanded the Men of his People to have just one wife each within Verse 27. The reason that the Lord God explains in Verse 28, is that whoredoms are an abomination to Him. The Lord God equates the Practice of Plural Marriages with whoredoms in Verse 28. And whoredoms are an abomination before the Lord God. There will Not be any Polygamous Marriages with the Kingdom of the Lord God.

[_The Nehor]

The Nehor: there's no need to get upset and to start flinging insults. I realize that you're now very nervous after having displayed some clear signs of impending apostasy. My advice is that you take a deep breath and try to relax. Just remember: there is a hierarchy of revelation in the Church (which is why you're now trying to renege on your earlier claims). And that's okay. Don't worry: I won't turn you in to the SCMC. But you have been warned, The Nehor! You should beware of such brazen effrontery!

I'm not upset, I'm just flinging insults. I do not renege on any of my earlier claims. Feel free to forward everything about me to the SCMC. I will beware nothing I have done in this thread.

The Nehor, The Nehor, The Nehor. Come on, now. If you ever want to be taken seriously, or to be seen as a substantive poster, then you're going to need to cease and desist with the insults and name calling. You are, presumably, a big boy now. Presumably, you're capable of discussing things without stooping to this level.

I thought I made it clear that I don't care to be thought of as a substantive poster by the majority HERE. To do so would require me to be an apostate. I have no interest in this. I am incapable of discussing things with you without stooping to this level. You do not interact with what people say. It's akin with trying to talk rationally to a rabid dog. If you show the wisdom of Socrates he'll still bite. The best thing to do is to kick it in the chops.

[_Yoda]

The Nehor, The Nehor, The Nehor. Come on, now. If you ever want to be taken seriously, or to be seen as a substantive poster, then you're going to need to cease and desist with the insults and name calling. You are, presumably, a big boy now. Presumably, you're capable of discussing things without stooping to this level.

Scratch--Let me preface my remarks by saying that you know quite well through my posts, and through private conversations with me, that you and I see eye to eye on many doctrinal issues.

That being said, I not only disagree with you on what appears to be your view on revelation, but I am also appalled by how you are treating Nehor. You are twisting his words, taunting him, and treating him in the exact fashion that you complain you are treated by DCP and other apologists.

I really can't blame Nehor for coming at you with an insult in frustration when you blatantly twist his words, and draw your own conclusions out of nowhere based on statements which are undocumented by him.

Were you not trying to correct Harmony on matters of doctrine? It's relevant because you seem confused about the nature of revelation. The reason you are confused, I submit, is because you are an outlier/outcast who is teetering on the brink of apostasy. Again, I challenge you to declare the power and authority of your "revelations." I know that you are too scared to do it. You want simultaneously to assert that these visions are legitimate proof of spirituality and God, and yet you lack the conviction to argue that in front of the TBMs on MAD. You are too spineless to assert the authority of your own supposed "convictions."

Nehor's conversation with Harmony regarding doctrine involved Section 76 of the Doctrine and Covenants. Where was Nehor trying to use his personal revelations to justify anything that he was speaking with Harmony about? I don't ever recall him doing that in any thread on this board. Please supply a reference if he has, and I will stand corrected.

Nehor has spoken about his encounters with revelations from God as being personal revelations given to strengthen his own convictions, not others. Why would he need to "argue" anything regarding personal revelation to fellow TBM's? I have seen other TBM's claim similar experiences. Personal revelation for yourself or your family has always been supported by the Church.

63 Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you; seek me diligently and ye shall find me; ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
64 Whatsoever ye ask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, that is expedient for you;

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Interestingly enough, I noticed another scripture in this same section of Matthew that you may want to study, Scratch:

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?