F*** Religion.

[_marg]

Ok thanks Ray.

So what are your beliefs now Ray? Is the Book of Mormon divinely inspired?

No more than Shakespeare or Milton.

There is a conspiracy theory that I came across recently while reading about Francis Bacon... that the actor Shakespeare was unlikely to have been the writer of the plays, just the front man, Francis Bacon being a likely potential author given his extensive knowledge and intelligence. Reminded me of J. Smith and the Book of Mormon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_authorship_question

[_Ray A]

There is a conspiracy theory that I came across recently while reading about Francis Bacon... that the actor Shakespeare was unlikely to have been the writer of the plays, just the front man, Francis Bacon being a likely potential author given his extensive knowledge and intelligence. Reminded me of J. Smith and the Book of Mormon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_authorship_question

I've known about this for quite some time, but I haven't investigated it thoroughly. Shakespeare's works were considered "too brilliant" to be written by one man, and a "peasant" at that, and also produced at a relatively young age. So they believed that someone like Bacon was a "better candidate", because he was erudite. But I don't see why Shakespeare could not have been the actual author. Maybe the Bacon theory is true, but I wouldn't discount Shakespeare as being the author, and I don't believe he needed any "supernatural help". He was just a gifted writer. Such quirks are rare, but not unheard of.

[_marg]

There is a conspiracy theory that I came across recently while reading about Francis Bacon... that the actor Shakespeare was unlikely to have been the writer of the plays, just the front man, Francis Bacon being a likely potential author given his extensive knowledge and intelligence. Reminded me of J. Smith and the Book of Mormon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_authorship_question

I've known about this for quite some time, but I haven't investigated it thoroughly. Shakespeare's works were considered "too brilliant" to be written by one man, and a "peasant" at that, and also produced at a relatively young age. So they believed that someone like Bacon was a "better candidate", because he was erudite. But I don't see why Shakespeare could not have been the actual author. Maybe the Bacon theory is true, but I wouldn't discount Shakespeare as being the author, and I don't believe he needed any "supernatural help". He was just a gifted writer. Such quirks are rare, but not unheard of.

Shakespeare the actor existed, the theory is that he was a front man for someone else who didn't want it known he was the writer.

I tend to believe Shakespeare the actor didn't write the plays.

[_Ray A]

Shakespeare the actor existed, the theory is that he was a front man for someone else who didn't want it known he was the writer.

I tend to believe Shakespeare the actor didn't write the plays.

That's a distinct possibility. I have no verdict on that, probably because I haven't studied it enough. I don't rule out anything. But I do think that some individuals can produce "extraordinary" writings seemingly "beyond their natural capability". That doesn't mean it's "supernatural". As Kirster Stendhal observed of Joseph Smith, he "showed us how ancient scripture was written". That is, not necessarily "by the gift and power of God", but he just had a "talent" for it. He could "write scripture", and persuade the most emotionally gullible that it actually came from God.

When it didn't.

[_marg]

That's a distinct possibility. I have no verdict on that, probably because I haven't studied it enough. I don't rule out anything. But I do think that some individuals can produce "extraordinary" writings seemingly "beyond their natural capability". That doesn't mean it's "supernatural". As Kirster Stendhal observed of Joseph Smith, he "showed us how ancient scripture was written". That is, not necessarily "by the gift and power of God", but he just had a "talent" for it. He could "write scripture", and persuade the most emotionally gullible that it actually came from God.

When it didn't.

Well since I don't believe J.Smith wrote much if anything of the Book of Mormon, and my impression is that he used a scribe at most times, I don't know what particular writings you attribute to him, that impress you.

I don't think people though can write about history when they've never read or been exposed to that information..which I believe is likely the case with Shakespeare.

[_Ray A]

Well since I don't believe J.Smith wrote much if anything of the Book of Mormon, and my impression is that he used a scribe at most times, I don't know what particular writings you attribute to him, that impress you.

I don't think people though can write about history when they've never read or been exposed to that information..which I believe is likely the case with Shakespeare.

Maybe you need to look at Joseph's library pre-BoM. Marquardt has the list. Contrary to folklore, he also began reading the Bible quite seriously before his "first vision". And, quite coincidentally, he deduced that God was "displeased" and recognised there was no true Church on earth, from reading the scriptures, not from what he was "told" in the FV. He extrapolated his Bible readings to what God "told" him in the FV.

[_marg]

I don't know what your reply is about Ray, or what your point was and I don't care. You sound like a nut, that's all I can gather.

[_Ray A]

I don't know what your reply is about Ray, or what your point was and I don't care. You sound like a nut, that's all I can gather.

Get screwed.

[_Mary]

I tend to believe Shakespeare the actor didn't write the plays.

I tend to believe that he did...

The fact remains that the most competent special students of Shakespeare, however they may differ as to details, and also the most authoritative special students of Bacon, are unanimous in upholding the traditional view.

The traditional view being that the works attributed to Shakespeare were actually written by Shakespeare.

It is incredible that Ben Jonson, who knew both Shakespeare and Bacon intimately, who himself dubbed Shakespeare the "swan of Avon," and who survived Bacon for eleven years, could have died without revealing the alleged secret, at a time when there was no reason for concealing it. Much has been made of Jonson's varying references to Shakespeare, and of certain inconsistencies in his references to both Shakespeare and Bacon; but these can be twisted in more than one direction and their explanation is purely speculative. His positive allusions to Shakespeare are inexplicable except as the most authoritative evidence of his identification of the man and his works. Richard Barnfield (1598) speaks of Shakespeare as "honey-flowing," and says that his Venus and Lucrece have placed his name "in Fame's immortal book." John Weever (1599) speaks of "honey-tongued Shakespeare," admired for "rose-cheeked Adonis," and "Romeo, Richard, more whose names I know not." John Davies of Hereford (1610) calls him "our English Terence, Mr. Will Shakespeare." Thomas Freeman (1614) writes "to Master W. Shakespeare:" -- "Who loves chaste life, there's Lucrece for a teacher | Who list read lust there's Venus and Adonis | . . . | Besides in plays they wit winds like Menander." Other contemporary allusions, all treating Shakespeare as a great poet and tragedian, are also on record.

From: http://www.theatrehistory.com/british/s ... re030.html

Hi Ray,

My friend and I (she was a philosophy major) used to sit and ponder over religion for days and hours, and in the end I think we both needed to take a break from thinking about it!!

I don't understand where Why me is coming from on this. There is so much uncertainty to life, let alone religion..!

Mary

[_Ray A]

I don't know what your reply is about Ray, or what your point was and I don't care. You sound like a nut, that's all I can gather.

That's because I don't subscribe to your Rigdon theory. You and Jersey are one and the same on this.

And you're both horrible and uninformed "commentators" on Mormonism.

And you, marg, know-it-all, get a damned life and become more informed before you spout your utter stupidity any more.

What do I think Of Dale's "Rigdon Theory"? It's right there with the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny.