Book of Mormon questions for brave Mormons to answer

[_moksha]

Is there another version of the Book of Mormon in which "And it came to pass" is taken out and it's written in a more flowing English?

It would be great to have a translation into modern English. I asked this question several times when I started going to the LDS Church. Apparently there is both a children's version and some other version (that comes in a non-portable hard cover edition) that is not really recognized or used by the Church. From what I gather, anachronistic English is thought to be more reverential than Modern English because thee and thou sound holier than than you. Sorry you.

[_marg]

Marg: how long do you think "and it came to pass" has been used. I think I saw it used in Maccabees. I also wrote something a while back where it was used in the 16 century when people wrote some Chronicles. Or has that been a phrase used in translation.

I know Tyndale in his New Testament(approx 1536) used it and he translated from a Greek N.T. version.

It to my understanding it was used in translating, that it is a literal translation from Greek as well as Hebrew, I don't know if that's only ancient Hebrew. I'm not sure though how many words conveyed the concept in Hebrew or in Greek.

I believe it was used to demarcate a new paragraph or new time frame for events.

Since you've looked into this, if you have other insights let me know. Thanks

[_Yoda]

Marg-

When I was in the 5th grade, my parents had a beautifully bound sixteen volume version of the Book of Mormon entitled "Illustrated Stories from the Book of Mormon". It contained the original scripture in the back of each volume for reference, but was much more straight-forward, as far as getting an idea of the storyline of the families, etc. The illustrations were all like mini-paintings, and beautiful. It was published by the Church, but I haven't seen it in years.

You might be able to get a copy of it from an LDS Institute, or something like that.

It was a great first introduction for me to the Book of Mormon. When I was in middle school, I went back and read the original scriptures, and it really helped things make more sense.

Just a thought.

[_marg]

I think I saw it used in Maccabees.

English as a language didn't start developing until I believe approx. 400 A.D. and I just looked into the First book of Maccabees and it was written before then. As far as written english I don't know the details of that, when first books started..but I would assume the phrase "and it came to pass" would not have been used unless it was as a translation from Hebrew or Greek.

Liz, I think what you are referring to might have been linked to by Nevo. I'll try to persevere with this, Book of Mormon...though I doubt very much I'll be better off for it in understanding anything about Mormonism. It's not as if I don't already know the general outline of events.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I'll try to persevere with this, Book of Mormon...though I doubt very much I'll be better off for it in understanding anything about Mormonism. It's not as if I don't already know the general outline of events.

This is simply priceless.

[_marg]

This is simply priceless.

Unfortunately DCP I can not respond to you, because if I do besides being a waste of time, it would simply be a personal attack.

[_Doctor Scratch]

I'll try to persevere with this, Book of Mormon...though I doubt very much I'll be better off for it in understanding anything about Mormonism. It's not as if I don't already know the general outline of events.

Actually, you've got a bit of a point here, Marg. Certainly, Harold Bloom would agree with you. The bulk of the Mormon experience actually has very little to do with the text of the Book of Mormon.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Unfortunately DCP I can not respond to you, because if I do besides being a waste of time, it would simply be a personal attack.

What's to respond, marg?

Think of somebody who opines without ceasing on the founding of the Republic, but has never read either the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence. Or of someone who posts up a storm about Beethoven's life and creativity, but has never listened to an entire measure of his music. Or of somebody who expects to be taken seriously on the life of Muhammad, but won't read the Qur’an.

[_Jason Bourne]

One of the reasons why "and it came to pass" is in the KJV and other Bible such as Tyndales' which was used by those putting together the KJV is that literal translations from Hebrew or Greek were used. Tyndale apparently translated translated literally word for word from Greek and tried to keep to same word order.

So the phrase "and it came to pass" is used both in ancient Hebrew and Greek to denote a new paragraph and so it was translated literally even though it's not necessary in english.

So I'm assuming the O.T.portion of the KJV is likely a literal translation mainly from Hebrew and so it would contain Hebraisms.

Ok. So perhaps Reformed Egyptian used the same phrase. Or Joseph Smith used it because it was a familiar scriptural term. It seems to me that he knew the Book of Mormon would be compared to the Bible that using similar language would make sense as well.

Since you are more knowledgable about
religion" correct me if I'm wrong.

My comment about knowledge was about LDS things specifically not all religious issues entirely.

As far as continuuing I really don't know. It's a lot of time to spend on something which is torture.

Oh it is not torture. Stick with it. It is not that tough.

[_marg]

Think of somebody who opines without ceasing on the founding of the Republic, but has never read either the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence. Or of someone who posts up a storm about Beethoven's life and creativity, but has never listened to an entire measure of his music. Or of somebody who expects to be taken seriously on the life of Muhammad, but won't read the Qur’an.

First of all the reason I have commented recently on the quality of writing in the Book of Mormon is because of my experience in reading portions.

If one begins to watch a movie one can often at the very beginning in the first few minutes get a sense of whether or not it will be a good movie just by the quality of sound and filming production. As far as story-line and dialogue generally one doesn't need to watch the entire movie in order to get a sense of what the entire movie is going to be like.

I don't accept the N.T. Jesus story. It's not the least bit convincing that Jews should concern themselves about one of their own going on about being a son of God. In any group of people there will be the eccentric, the ones who make extraordinary claims. People's reactions tend to be to ignore them unless they are a danger to others or themselves. People don't get upset and want to kill them. So I don't accept the N.T. as being anything that likely happened and I view it as a story devised to appeal to pagan Romans. That continued theme obviously I won't accept in the Book of Mormon.

So to read biblical themes I don't accept as being actualities of events, carried over into the Book of Mormon, coupled with my perception that the Book of Mormon was written to sound like the Bible but is in essence a "pretend" translation unlike the KJV and other translations which are truly taken from ancient text writtern in Hebrew & Greek and the whole thing...is offensive to my sensibilities..and the combination of it all, makes it difficult for me to carry on reading it.

I don't really want to be critical, for the sake of being critical. But I can't for the life of me...see any "good" in the Book of Mormon. I can't actually see at this point one iota of good in it. It's bad mouthing the Catholic church, bad mouthing jews, and pretty much bad mouthing all those who aren't willing to believe a one and only God, a creator of mankind is part of it.


I'm at page 50..maybe ..just maybe it's got some good moral values in it. And for that reason I will continue. But this is like being at a movie I can't stand, but I think maybe it will get better..and quite frankly they rarely do.