has l-dsinc submitted the papyrus to egyptologists?

[_Baker]

What a gross insult to god to attribute this ridiculous fraud to his doings!

We LDS don't expect you swine to correctly judge and rightly treat this pearl. Your vacuous squeals are meaningless to us.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

It's just reality, Wade. No disinterested, rational person, informed by the facts, would ever conclude otherwise. It's such an obvious fabrication that you insult your own intelligence to take it seriously. And when you say "we LDS" - keep in mind that a very large number within your fold have long accepted that the Book of Abraham is not what it purports to be.

[_Wisdom Seeker]

It gladdens me to see so many former members still enthralled with the Book of Abraham.

Who knows, perhaps in all their intensive research and queries into this sacred text, they just might stumble onto the right questions to ask for rightly determining the verity of that text as divinely revealed scripture.

Then, if they do stumble across the right questions, and they ask those right questions, and are willing to hear the answers in trust and faith, they may discover that the Book of Abraham was never really a problem at all. Rather, it is but one of many tests of faith that certain former members have failed.

But, as long as they continue to rely mainly or exclusively on the arm of flesh when evaluating the things of God, the chances that they may stubble across the right questions to ask, isn't all that promising, nor is their much hope of them surmounting their failed test of faith.

We'll see.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

What significant doctrinal, astronomical or philosophical concepts found in the Book of Abraham are of the most importance to the LDS church? Certainly with all the tombs found in Egypt, God must of had directed someone to this particular tomb to retrieve it and bring it out of obscurity to his chosen prophet. And if this being the case the actual significance of it must be very great considering the trials placed before the church because of it.

[_wenglund]

Thanks for your post Wade, I didn't realize that we were asking the wrong questions. Should a prosecution lawyer only ask the questions that the defense team thinks are the right ones to ask? I think if that were the case then criminals would never see the inside of prisons...

Your point makes good sense in relation to the adversarial system of jurisprudence, where the object is to determine the guilt or innocence of the accused.

However, it doesn't make sense in relation non-adversarial and pragmatic systems like science and religion, where the objective is to determine what works best in achieving the desired goal. Asking the right questions is key to scientific and religious progress.


thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

It's just reality, Wade. No disinterested, rational person, informed by the facts, would ever conclude otherwise. It's such an obvious fabrication that you insult your own intelligence to take it seriously. And when you say "we LDS" - keep in mind that a very large number within your fold have long accepted that the Book of Abraham is not what it purports to be.

Again, you are free to squeal whatever you want. It is meaningless to me.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Buffalo]

That may be how the doltish mind views it. The rational mind would rightly think otherwise.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

No, the disinterested rational mind would conclude that the Book of Abraham is the creation of Joseph Smith.

Sorry Wade, even Will Schryver, the premier expert on Book of Abraham apologetic research, takes Baker's side here.

"If I were an outsider looking in at all of this, I find it difficult to believe that I could be persuaded that the production of the Book of Abraham was anything other than a clumsy imposture perpetrated by Joseph Smith upon his followers." - Will Schryver

[_Baker]

It's just reality, Wade. No disinterested, rational person, informed by the facts, would ever conclude otherwise. It's such an obvious fabrication that you insult your own intelligence to take it seriously. And when you say "we LDS" - keep in mind that a very large number within your fold have long accepted that the Book of Abraham is not what it purports to be.

Again, you are free to squeal whatever you want. It is meaningless to me.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Apparently so.

[_Buffalo]

It's just reality, Wade. No disinterested, rational person, informed by the facts, would ever conclude otherwise. It's such an obvious fabrication that you insult your own intelligence to take it seriously. And when you say "we LDS" - keep in mind that a very large number within your fold have long accepted that the Book of Abraham is not what it purports to be.

Again, you are free to squeal whatever you want. It is meaningless to me.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

"If I were an outsider looking in at all of this, I find it difficult to believe that I could be persuaded that the production of the Book of Abraham was anything other than a clumsy imposture perpetrated by Joseph Smith upon his followers." - Will Schryver

[_jon]

Wade, we are determining the truthfulness of the 'witness' contained within the book of Abraham, I'd say adversarial questioning would be essential.

For the record, what questions do you think should be asked?

[_Wisdom Seeker]

It gladdens me to see so many former members still enthralled with the Book of Abraham.

Who knows, perhaps in all their intensive research and queries into this sacred text, they just might stumble onto the right questions to ask for rightly determining the verity of that text as divinely revealed scripture.

Then, if they do stumble across the right questions, and they ask those right questions, and are willing to hear the answers in trust and faith, they may discover that the Book of Abraham was never really a problem at all. Rather, it is but one of many tests of faith that certain former members have failed.

But, as long as they continue to rely mainly or exclusively on the arm of flesh when evaluating the things of God, the chances that they may stubble across the right questions to ask, isn't all that promising, nor is their much hope of them surmounting their failed test of faith.

We'll see.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

What significant doctrinal, astronomical or philosophical concepts found in the Book of Abraham are of the most importance to the LDS church? Certainly with all the tombs found in Egypt, God must of had directed someone to this particular tomb to retrieve it and bring it out of obscurity to his chosen prophet. And if this being the case the actual significance of it must be very great considering the trials placed before the church because of it.

This was a serious question. What is the major significance of the Book of Abraham to the LDS church?

[_wenglund]

What significant doctrinal, astronomical or philosophical concepts found in the Book of Abraham are of the most importance to the LDS church?

For good reason, the Church hasn't (nor have I for that matter), thought to provide ordinal rankings, in terms of importance and significance, of the multitude of doctrines and precepts in the various scriptures. That isn't how the gospel works or is intended to work.

In short, you are asking the wrong question.

Certainly with all the tombs found in Egypt, God must of had directed someone to this particular tomb to retrieve it and bring it out of obscurity to his chosen prophet. And if this being the case the actual significance of it must be very great considering the trials placed before the church because of it.

The significance of the Book of Abraham to the Church is clearly attesting by the fact that it was canonized.

This significance is only realized by the individual members of the Church, when the Book of Abraham is rightly viewed and used and analyzed by them in accordance with the intent and purpose of thatr book of scripture--which has little to nothing to do with Egyptology.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-