If the church is not true, would you want to know?

[_stemelbow]

There's lots of different topics on it, pick one that interests you and have a trawl through.

Nuttin' huh? Well, shoot, that didn't help me.

[_jon]

There's lots of different topics on it, pick one that interests you and have a trawl through.

Nuttin' huh? Well, shoot, that didn't help me.

What topics interest you?

[_Wisdom Seeker]

There's lots of different topics on it, pick one that interests you and have a trawl through.

Nuttin' huh? Well, shoot, that didn't help me.

Depends on what interests you the most. You could start with one that got me wondering. Having grown up in a city where LDS families would become foster parents to young Native American boys and girls in compliance to what Prophets and the Book of Mormon taught, I wondered why the abandonment of Native American conversion over the years. Was it because the Native American did not represent what was previously described by modern-day Prophets as the Lamanites? While this might not interest you, it did me, and in a way was one part of many questions that helped open up this Pandora's box, which I was told I should never open. Sounds to me like you have an open mind and understand that a person really needs to put aside pride in order to really understand. Going in, with the attitude that you could never be wrong accomplishes nothing.

[_stemelbow]

What topics interest you?

I don't see what that matters. Are you saying any topic will reveal something about the Church that proves it untrue?

I'm asking for something specific that will prove the Church untrue. Anything?

[_stemelbow]

Depends on what interests you the most. You could start with one that got me wondering. Having grown up in a city where LDS families would become foster parents to young Native American boys and girls in compliance to what Prophets and the Book of Mormon taught, I wondered why the abandonment of Native American conversion over the years. Was it because the Native American did not represent what was previously described by modern-day Prophets as the Lamanites? While this might not interest you, it did me, and in a way was one part of many questions that helped open up this Pandora's box, which I was told I should never open. Sounds to me like you have an open mind and understand that a person really needs to put aside pride in order to really understand. Going in, with the attitude that you could never be wrong accomplishes nothing.

I don't even get your point here. Have no Native Americans been converted in recent years? What abandonment and how does that relate to the idea of Native Americans equate to Lamanites?

[_Wisdom Seeker]

Depends on what interests you the most. You could start with one that got me wondering. Having grown up in a city where LDS families would become foster parents to young Native American boys and girls in compliance to what Prophets and the Book of Mormon taught, I wondered why the abandonment of Native American conversion over the years. Was it because the Native American did not represent what was previously described by modern-day Prophets as the Lamanites? While this might not interest you, it did me, and in a way was one part of many questions that helped open up this Pandora's box, which I was told I should never open. Sounds to me like you have an open mind and understand that a person really needs to put aside pride in order to really understand. Going in, with the attitude that you could never be wrong accomplishes nothing.

I don't even get your point here. Have no Native Americans been converted in recent years? What abandonment and how does that relate to the idea of Native Americans equate to Lamanites?

Perhaps this topic is not to your liking. Over on another message board a question was asked: what was the final straw for your disbelief? There were plenty of answers with the majority being Book of Abraham issues, Polyandry, and Prop 8. But there were plenty other things which have caused disbelief and concern among the saints. If your serious about understanding what is and what isn't true, you must do more than just say you want to know the truth. You must be able to accept that you very well could be completely wrong about your beliefs. Because of pride, I don't think many actually ever find themselves in a position to accept that they very well could be completely wrong.

[_Themis]

I don't see what that matters. Are you saying any topic will reveal something about the Church that proves it untrue?

Many topics provide strong evidence. All together they certainly provide proof, although, many due to bias, cannot see this.

I'm asking for something specific that will prove the Church untrue. Anything?

Stand alone? That would be the Book of Abraham. Just to much evidence there. I know you don't see that though. :)

[_DarkHelmet]

I don't see what that matters. Are you saying any topic will reveal something about the Church that proves it untrue?

Many topics provide strong evidence. All together they certainly provide proof, although, many due to bias, cannot see this.

I'm asking for something specific that will prove the Church untrue. Anything?

Stand alone? That would be the Book of Abraham. Just to much evidence there. I know you don't see that though. :)

It still depends on the person. There is no "one thing" that would convince everyone that it isn't true. I personally agree with you about the Book of Abraham. Hypothetically, if someone was to find the actual gold plates that Joseph Smith used in his translation in some attic in an old house in upstate New York, and the church admitted that they were in fact the actual gold plates that Joseph Smith dug up because evidence on the plates linked them directly to Joseph Smith, but non-church experts unanimously declared the plates to be a forgery built in the 1820s, how devastating would that be? That is essentially what happened with the Book of Abraham. But the Book of Abraham issue was simply what got me started, and there is so much other evidence out there that is damning to Joseph Smith's claims.

Other people don't care about the Book of Abraham (which blows my mind), and its things like Polygamy that do it for them. It depends on the person, and there is plenty of stuff out there to destroy a testimony. Just read the testimonies of people who left and people leave for a variety of reasons.

[_stemelbow]

Perhaps this topic is not to your liking. Over on another message board a question was asked: what was the final straw for your disbelief? There were plenty of answers with the majority being Book of Abraham issues, Polyandry, and Prop 8. But there were plenty other things which have caused disbelief and concern among the saints. If your serious about understanding what is and what isn't true, you must do more than just say you want to know the truth. You must be able to accept that you very well could be completely wrong about your beliefs. Because of pride, I don't think many actually ever find themselves in a position to accept that they very well could be completely wrong.

I don't know what more to say. I do think I could be completely wrong. If I am I just want someone to be able to show me how so.

[_stemelbow]

Many topics provide strong evidence. All together they certainly provide proof, although, many due to bias, cannot see this.

Oh boy. Sorry Themis, this just isn't very helpful at all. If you can prove something then prove it. If all you can do is say its proven to you and others don't see it because they are too biased, then that just doesn't help at all.

Stand alone? That would be the Book of Abraham. Just to much evidence there. I know you don't see that though. :)

See what? All you did was allude to something that critics, quite often, feel they have in their corner. Even if there is no inspiration in the Book of Abraham the question of whether the Church is true is still up in the air. To prove it wrong would take far more than that.