Angelic energy consumption

[_truth dancer]

The way I see it, in my non-scientific way, is that the universe continually brings forth something new, or creates itself.

We see a time when gravity didn't exist, when galaxies didn't exist, when planets didn't exist, when life as we know it didn't exist, etc. etc.

So, wouldn't it be safe to assume that we will continue to see new things? I mean really dramatically new things, things we can't even imagine would ever exist? Right now we see some constants but who is to say the space time continuum wouldn't change or something? Or perhaps some new element of the universe will come forth that changes it all up?

I mean who would have thought, 14 billions years ago, the universe would have brought forth us? LOL!

Hmmm...

On a side note, one of the reasons the LDS church didn't work for me is because its teachings seem to ignore the past and the future. It is like they took a little, (minuscule), slice of time and came up with a religion that only sort of fit within this little speck of space. It doesn't really work for me in terms of what we know or what is possible.

~td~

[_Some Schmo]

I'm sorry, but I highly doubt Moroni would get his energy from the simple carbohydrates in a Snickers bar. He'd go for complex carbs... like angel hair pasta.

(I had to work way too hard for a really pathetic joke... meh, oh well... *click*)

[_Scottie]

I'm sorry, but I highly doubt Moroni would get his energy from the simple carbohydrates in a Snickers bar. He'd go for complex carbs... like angel hair pasta.

(I had to work way too hard for a really pathetic joke... meh, oh well... *click*)

/rimshot

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, he's here all week!

[_DrW]

The way I see it, in my non-scientific way, is that the universe continually brings forth something new, or creates itself.

We see a time when gravity didn't exist, when galaxies didn't exist, when planets didn't exist, when life as we know it didn't exist, etc. etc.

So, wouldn't it be safe to assume that we will continue to see new things? I mean really dramatically new things, things we can't even imagine would ever exist? Right now we see some constants but who is to say the space time continuum wouldn't change or something? Or perhaps some new element of the universe will come forth that changes it all up?

I mean who would have thought, 14 billions years ago, the universe would have brought forth us? LOL!

Hmmm...

On a side note, one of the reasons the LDS church didn't work for me is because its teachings seem to ignore the past and the future. It is like they took a little, (minuscule), slice of time and came up with a religion that only sort of fit within this little speck of space. It doesn't really work for me in terms of what we know or what is possible.

~td~

TD,

You certainly have every right to look at the universe in a non-scientific way. Let me ask you:

- Do you believe that there are any immutable laws in nature?

- Do you believe that it is possible for nature to act in any way that humans can imagine?

- Are we to believe that literally anything is possible?

- If not, then why superluminal motion?

When it comes to making the important decisions related to how the universe works, its best to check in with an expert.

People who are not aware of (or do not believe in) the laws of nature have lost a lot of money (and will continue to lose a lot of money) investing in processes that nature does not allow such as perpetual motion.

(Look, there goes one now.)

http://perpetualmotiongenerators.com/the-importance-of-magnet-perpetual-motion-machine/

[_ludwigm]

Yes, there was a moment immediately after the big bang

What about before the big bang?

[_asbestosman]

This is an awesome topic. While it's as important as deciding how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, it's still awesome for trying to work physics and math into Mormonism.


As for energy, could it not come from vacuum energy? What if they use Maxwell's demon (essentially trading information for energy)? What if the energy source is actually wrapped up in smaller dimensions attached to the angels? I heard once that the Spirit world is right here on earth, but we can't see it with our normal eyes.

As for the problem of superluminal travel, what about wormholes? Maybe refined spirit matter can fit into it but us mere mortals cannot.

[_moksha]

Maybe refined spirit matter can fit into it but us mere mortals cannot.

Not only that, but what of the doors on the astral plane which the Jupiter Talisman may have unlocked?

[_truth dancer]

TD,

You certainly have every right to look at the universe in a non-scientific way. Let me ask you:

- Do you believe that there are any immutable laws in nature?

Well, I do not know? It seems there are "laws" for which we may not yet know or understand. I'm not certain we have it all figured out yet.

- Do you believe that it is possible for nature to act in any way that humans can imagine?

Hmmm this is a good question. My first answer is no but in a million years who knows? I mean certainly ten thousand years ago there was no flicker of imagination that the Internet would exist, or that we could travel to the moon.

- Are we to believe that literally anything is possible?

Well, I doubt "anything" is possible, but I'm pretty sure a lot more is ,(will be), possible than what we currently "know" or even, think.

- If not, then why superluminal motion?

Not being an expert, I am just throwing out some ideas but basically my point was, as much as we currently know, which is quite a bit considering we are new to this existence, I think we are just at the beginning of knowing what it is we are a part of, and how the universe works.(Asbestosman has some great ideas)!

First, we are just beginning to learn about our universe, and secondly, who knows what the universe will bring forth in another few billion years. Maybe there is more to come? Something completely new to existence?

When it comes to making the important decisions related to how the universe works, its best to check in with an expert.

Thanks for this reminder. Before I make any important decisions related to the universe I will make sure to check in with you! (smile)


~td~

[_DrW]

TD,

You certainly have every right to look at the universe in a non-scientific way. Let me ask you:

- Do you believe that there are any immutable laws in nature?

Well, I do not know? It seems there are "laws" for which we may not yet know or understand. I'm not certain we have it all figured out yet.

- Do you believe that it is possible for nature to act in any way that humans can imagine?

Hmmm this is a good question. My first answer is no but in a million years who knows? I mean certainly ten thousand years ago there was no flicker of imagination that the Internet would exist, or that we could travel to the moon.

- Are we to believe that literally anything is possible?

Well, I doubt "anything" is possible, but I'm pretty sure a lot more is ,(will be), possible than what we currently "know" or even, think.

- If not, then why superluminal motion?

Not being an expert, I am just throwing out some ideas but basically my point was, as much as we currently know, which is quite a bit considering we are new to this existence, I think we are just at the beginning of knowing what it is we are a part of, and how the universe works.(Asbestosman has some great ideas)!

First, we are just beginning to learn about our universe, and secondly, who knows what the universe will bring forth in another few billion years. Maybe there is more to come? Something completely new to existence?

When it comes to making the important decisions related to how the universe works, its best to check in with an expert.

Thanks for this reminder. Before I make any important decisions related to the universe I will make sure to check in with you! (smile)


~td~

Good answers.

I don't agree with them.

But good answers, nonetheless.

No immutable laws, huh?

Hmmm, perhaps future worlds are lucky that you are an non-believer like me. If you (and your celestial male partner of course) were to get your own planet someday, and decided to go with the "no immutable laws" thing, there could be real trouble.

Real trouble, I say.

(smile)

[_NorthboundZax]

I agree with TD.

100 years ago, people would be saying "Just how many trees do we need to cut down for fuel to make it to the moon?"

You act like that is not a worthwhile question. I'd argue that any question that we can learn from is worthwhile. So, just how many trees would it take?

The minimum energy required (neglecting air resistance, friction on moving parts, etc) to get from the Earth to the moon is ~60 MJ per kg (this gets you just to the point where the moon's gravity can then pull you in). A reasonably dry piece of ]wood contains about 10MJ per kg. So about 6 kg of wood per kg of stuff. If a 'typical' tree is 1000 kg, a small rocket, of say 10000 kg will need 60 trees. That doesn't sound too bad, but this doesn't allow taking any of the fuel aboard. Once the fuel goes aboard, each tree needs more trees to get those off the ground which likewise need more as well. The problem quickly becomes unfeasible for getting the fuel off the ground.

If you look at the space shuttle on the launch pad, there is more fuel than shuttle. Even with high energy fuel (and going to orbit rather the moon), the shuttle needs lots of fuel just to carry its fuel. Did we learn anything? I hope so, because I'm going to apply this to Moroni traveling to the moon. That ought to be an easier chore than going to Kolob as the relativity problems aren't so tantamount.

Let's assume that Moroni's aura was just for showing off and he turns it off during space flight to conserve energy. If Moroni want to get to the moon from Palmyra, he has the same 60MJ per kg barrier. If he is an 80 kg being, he needs 5GJ of energy. He could go the route of eating 4000 snickers bars along the way, but that adds over 200 additional kg and runs into the same problem as above. He'd need even more snickers bars to get those off the ground.

Maybe photoangelisynthesis is the answer (hat tip to Belmont). If Moroni is able to use solar energy, he can derive 1000J/s. This means it will take him about 60 days to make it there. The Apollo astronauts could lap him.

Another great idea worth pursuing is vacuum (or dark) energy (Asbestosman). If we take the density of dark energy from cosmological constraints as 10^-9 J/m^3, Moroni would need to draw on 5 billion cubic km worth of free space to get to the moon. Hopefully John the Baptist or some other angel hasn't already used it up. It would really stink to accidentally cross another angel's trail and be stuck on backup solar energy to slog through the void. It does make one wonder, though, if angels are using dark energy (or Maxwell's demon, for that matter), who's side are they really on?