Is Mormoni's promise testable?

[_Drifting]

I've tried the Promise. I'm still waiting for an answer. It's been years. Until I get one, I'm sure that God won't mind that I live my life my own way.

Me too, except I mistakenly gave God the benefit of the doubt.
Now I live my life my own way half of the time.

[_Panopticon]

Of course it isn't testable. I went through 13 years of testing Moroni's promise, including fasting three days, praying all night, serving a mission, reading the scriptures multiple times...

Nada.

Church leaders would then tell me that I hadn't waited long enough and to stop putting timetables on God. Fair enough. The problem is that they would have said this no matter how long I had been waiting.

In essence, you have to believe a priori, then continue the experiment indefinitely, because any premature termination of the experiment is "putting timetables on God."

Mormonism isn't the only religion that teaches lifelong adherence is necessary in order to obtain the promised knowledge. However, with all of the competing religions, how does one know which one to pursue the rest of his/her life?

[_Jonah]

For years growing up in the church I tried Moroni's Promise many times without any type of result. I couldn't understand what I was doing wrong not to receive an answer. Of course, if there was anything faulty in the process, it had to be me.

Then, before leaving on a mission, I went through the temple and was told "It is a wicked and adulterous generation that seeks for a sign."

Hmmmm...'nuff said.

[_DarkHelmet]

The reliability of it is found in the results.

Exactly stemelbow, exactly.

LOL.

From wikipedia

As of December 31, 2010, there were 52,225 LDS missionaries serving in 340 church missions throughout the world. Their work, often in cooperation with local members, resulted in 272,814 convert baptisms in 2010

over 52,000 missionaries handing out free Book of Mormons and challenging people to try Moroni's promise and the best they can muster is 5 baptisms per missionary per year. That's less than 1 every 2 months. With that big of a full time sales force and marketing effort, I think the Flat Earth Society could sign up 5 people a year per missionary.

[_stemelbow]

over 52,000 missionaries handing out free Book of Mormons and challenging people to try Moroni's promise and the best they can muster is 5 baptisms per missionary per year. That's less than 1 every 2 months. With that big of a full time sales force and marketing effort, I think the Flat Earth Society could sign up 5 people a year per missionary.

Why don't you start some project of sorts that will be seen as worthwhile by 52000 people to spend their time and money recruiting others? I'm quite certain you can do it easily.

[_Themis]

The reliability of it is found in the results. Not just whether you feel inspired that the Book of Mormon is true of course. its also in by living the teachings and seeing how it affects your life. If that doesn't work for you, I'll go ahead and assume God knowing your situation and predicament has something in mind for you.

How is living the teachings and seeing how they affect you a reliable way in finding out if the Book of Mormon is true?

[_Drifting]

over 52,000 missionaries handing out free Book of Mormons and challenging people to try Moroni's promise and the best they can muster is 5 baptisms per missionary per year. That's less than 1 every 2 months. With that big of a full time sales force and marketing effort, I think the Flat Earth Society could sign up 5 people a year per missionary.

Why don't you start some project of sorts that will be seen as worthwhile by 52000 people to spend their time and money recruiting others? I'm quite certain you can do it easily.

I can suggest some.
How about sending 52,000 people to help rehouse the homeless in Haiti, Japan and New Orleans.
What about 52,000 volunteers helping to feed the homeless across the world.
What about staffing numerous soup kitchens and hostels with 52,000 people?

If you cannot think of a more worthy cause for 52,000 volunteers other than traipsing the streets bothering unsuspecting passers by then you are a completely worthless Richard.

[_Buffalo]

http://www.mormonthink.com/testimonyweb.htm

An interesting bit from your link:

The following is from a study on how to make people believe something is plausible that is implausible. Those of us of who have been missionaries may recognize having used a similar process in helping investigators "gain a testimony" using Moroni's promise. Here is the conclusion of the study:

"We have proposed a three-processes model for the development of false memories for implausible events through suggestive procedures. The first process is to make an event be perceived as plausible, the second is to help individuals acquire the autobiographical belief that it is likely to have happened to them. The third, not examined in this study, is to help people interpret their thoughts and fantasies about the event happening as memories. Our data shed light on two of the three processes.

We have shown that information about an event from a presumably credible source can alter perceived plausibility of the event. Our results also indicated that this information can produce changes in the perceived likelihood of the event having occurred to the individual. When suggestive personalized information was added, the effects on autobiographical likelihood were substantially greater and a sizable minority of participants came to believe that the event probably happened to them. In addition, we have shown that this happened although the event continued to be seen by participants as relatively implausible. This provides evidence for the fact that even a relatively small increase in plausibility of an initially implausible event can pave the way for additional suggestion, so that some people increase the perceived likelihood of occurrence of the event in their life."

http://faculty.washington.edu/eloftus/A ... zzloft.htm

In converting people to Mormonism, missionaries follow the three-step process this way:

The investigator reads the Moroni Promise and we bear testimony, suggesting that the experience (and what we teach them) is plausible.
We ask them to pray about it and to feel a particular feeling, which makes it part of their autobiography, increasing for them the plausibility of what we have told them.
We interpret their feelings and subsequent positive feelings, fantasies, and events connected with Mormonism in a way that increases plausibility.

Once the "testimony" is created, it is reinforced and further developed through social learning, positive reinforcement ("fellowshipping"), public expression in testimony meeting, and the acceptance of additional commitments by the convert.

Also, see the commitment pattern as taught by the missionaries:

[_Themis]

The reliability of it is found in the results. Not just whether you feel inspired that the Book of Mormon is true of course. its also in by living the teachings and seeing how it affects your life. If that doesn't work for you, I'll go ahead and assume God knowing your situation and predicament has something in mind for you.

How is living the teachings and seeing how they affect you a reliable way in finding out if the Book of Mormon is true?

Bump

[_DarkHelmet]

over 52,000 missionaries handing out free Book of Mormons and challenging people to try Moroni's promise and the best they can muster is 5 baptisms per missionary per year. That's less than 1 every 2 months. With that big of a full time sales force and marketing effort, I think the Flat Earth Society could sign up 5 people a year per missionary.

Why don't you start some project of sorts that will be seen as worthwhile by 52000 people to spend their time and money recruiting others? I'm quite certain you can do it easily.

Huh? This isn't about my ability to rally a 52,000 person sales force. I freely admit I lack the salesmanship and leadership skills to do that. I never claimed I could. I just find it funny that god's sales force, armed with the converting power of Moroni's promise, can only muster a measley 5 converts per year per salesperson.