Blacks weren't allowed to pray in church

[_ldsfaqs]

I don't think you can really defend the attitude towards and treatment of blacks before that in the church. Brigham Young's statements about blacks (you know them) tainted the Church's view for over a hundred years. I'm just puzzled why any black person would have considered membership in a church that held them as "less than valiant".

Brigham Young actually said a lot of positive things about blacks, but anti's like you aren't interested in the actual truth of things. Further, most of the negative quotes are taken out of context, thus made to appear like he's saying something bad about them, when he's not, such as the "black, uncoof" statement. He wasn't calling them that, he was stating a fact of society that that is how they appeared/seemed.

As I understand it, the Church still considers them as "less than valiant" but God has changed his mind and has given them a pass to priesthood. If I were black, I would find that offensive.

You don't understand anything..... The "less valiant" idea was NEVER an aspect given by the Church itself as part and reasoning for the ban. It was only an idea promoted by a couple of people in history as a possible reason, per Book of Abraham statement related to pre-mortality and man, who we were before, etc. compared to now.

Further, I actually know this isn't an idea believed or promoted by most in the Church, but especially the Church ITSELF given that I've attended some 20 different Wards of the Church in the last 20 years alone.

Anti-mormon fantasy's of Mormonism is not Mormonism.

[_RayAgostini]

Once lineage was determined, the Priesthood was given.

They could not determine lineage from patriarchal blessings (and were shown to be wrong in many cases, eventually), particularly in places like Brazil, which has a huge mixed ancestry. This was one of the facts that inspired SWK to seek "guidance" on the ban.

You can read the whole history of the "The lifting of the Pharaoh's Curse" here:

Neither White nor Black:Mormon Scholars Confront the Race Issue in a Universal Church.

[_RayAgostini]

This a somewhat dated article (2003), but I don't believe much has changed:

Some blacks say Mormon Church must address racism:

The issue is a tough one for the church.

Mormons believe their president -- the leader of the First Presidency -- is a ''living prophet'' who rules by direct divine revelation, so the black priesthood ban must be seen as God's will or else the divine prophets from the mid-19th century until 1978 were grievously mistaken....

But Natalie Sheppard, a black American who joined the church 20 years ago, said she feels the church has never done a good job of encouraging black membership. When she moved from Ohio to a Salt Lake City suburb, ''I experienced the rudest awakening of my life,'' Sheppard said.

She recalled storming into church headquarters and demanding to speak to Mormon leaders on a cold day in 1982 when her 6-year-old son -- waiting for her to pick him up -- was made to stand outside the home of another church member because he was black. ''I'm not saying that people need to apologize,'' Sheppard said, ''but we lose a lot of black members.''

Unfortunately, the only way I see to solve this continuing problem is to address current racism in the Church (among some), which stems from now old teachings, and that can only be properly done through a formal apology. McConkie said, "we were wrong". Then if you are wrong, you should apologise for wrongdoings, or thinking wrong thoughts.

[_Quasimodo]

You don't understand anything..... The "less valiant" idea was NEVER an aspect given by the Church itself as part and reasoning for the ban. It was only an idea promoted by a couple of people in history as a possible reason, per Book of Abraham statement related to pre-mortality and man, who we were before, etc. compared to now.

The older I get, the more I realize that I don't understand anything.

Ok, what was the reason for the ban?

Further, I actually know this isn't an idea believed or promoted by most in the Church, but especially the Church ITSELF given that I've attended some 20 different Wards of the Church in the last 20 years alone.

Funny, that was my understanding. Dark skin equals "less than valiant". That was the reason given for "Lamanites" having dark skin, as well.

Anti-mormon fantasy's of Mormonism is not Mormonism.

I think "anti-Mormon" is just a talking point used by defenders of the faith. It really has no meaning. I like Mormons. I just have problems with the dogma.

[_RayAgostini]

Ok, what was the reason for the ban?

The "official" reason now is: "We don't know." Nobody knows.

However, I do know: It was prejudice. Contemporary prejudice that existed in America at the time, and this is abundantly apparent in the teachings of Joseph Fielding Smith, who used Brigham Young quotes. This was the same fellow who believed that the LGT was "Satan derived".

What the Church needs to do now is disavow all of these false teachings, because the longer they linger, the longer they will cause problems for the Church.

[_Willy Law]

Brigham Young actually said a lot of positive things about blacks, but anti's like you aren't interested in the actual truth of things.

I'm interested. In fact I am very interested in seeing "a lot" of Brigham Young quotes that are positive about blacks.
Let's see em.

[_Shulem]

but anti's like you aren't interested in the actual truth of things.

I want to know the truth. Tell me the name of the king written in the writing of Facsimile No. 3 as professed by your founding prophet, Joe Smith. Tell me!!!!!

Can you do that? You little worm. Or shall you wiggle away and hide from us antiMormons like the coward you are? I think you'll slither away and hide like a chicken. Mormons are chickens.

Paul O

[_Quasimodo]

Ok, what was the reason for the ban?

The "official" reason now is: "We don't know." Nobody knows.

However, I do know: It was prejudice. Contemporary prejudice that existed in America at the time, and this is abundantly apparent in the teachings of Joseph Fielding Smith, who used Brigham Young quotes. This was the same fellow who believed that the LGT was "Satan derived".

What the Church needs to do now is disavow all of these false teachings, because the longer they linger, the longer they will cause problems for the Church.

A tough call for the Church, though. It means admitting that some of the Prophets were wrong. A shaking of the very foundations of Mormon theology.

Maybe they decided that not addressing it was the best course.

[_Shulem]

What did Joseph Smith say about the mighty black god of Egypt, Anubis -- of Facsimile No. 3?



Come forth you chicken LDS apologists. Your prophet was a boner. Is there not an LDS apologist who is without fear? Come forth, Anubis is ready to devour you.

Paul O

[_Morley]

Brigham Young actually said a lot of positive things about blacks, but anti's like you aren't interested in the actual truth of things.

I'm interested. In fact I am very interested in seeing "a lot" of Brigham Young quotes that are positive about blacks.
Let's see em.

I'm with Mr. Law on this. I'm very interested in 'the actual truth of things.'