Buffalo wrote:You're pretty obsessed with me, Stem. What's up with that? :P
nuttin'. I just got one of those obsessive personalities I guess.
Mopologetics is warfare
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_stemelbow
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 5872
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:40 pm
Re: Mopologetics is warfare
nuttin'. I just got one of those obsessive personalities I guess.
Love ya tons,
Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
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_Gadianton
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 9947
- Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:12 am
Re: Mopologetics is warfare
Hi there Stak,
You quoted MFB,
It's interesting the ways a question like DG's can expose the assumptions of TBMs (and maybe critics). My guess -- exposing my assumptions about apologists as uninterested in truth and tactically oriented -- is that he is attempting to appear fair-minded and even-handed, as a ploy to show that TBMs have nothing to fear from critics while knowing at any time he can ban a poster and delete the post if it scores too many points.
Some TBMs may see the question as an opportunity to show that they have problems with the Church, but that this only proves the Church is true since Moses wasn't perfect. Others might interpret the question as an offer to go the religious studies route and speak freely about life as a Mormon, warts and all, without even considering that the mention of problems would somehow diminish the bonds to their heritage.
But for MFB the pragmatist, absolute truth is at stake, and it's no joking matter.
Long ago, a mission companion related to me some story about Joseph Smith where he told Bro. Brigham that if he (Joseph Smith) were to tell Brigham everything he knew (mysteries etc.) that even he (Brian Laundrie. Brig.) would leave him. The point was that Brigham worshiped Joseph Smith, even being the next-in-line in for the patriarchal throne, but even he was not prepared for the horrors of sheer truth that Joseph Smith was privy to. I have never investigated this story but MFB's sentiments immediately brought it to mind. If MFB were to gaze upon the Church with the horrors of his penetrating intellect, the Church would come within a hair's width of falsification and though it may yet stand, at the cost of how many testimonies? MFB's criticisms would be like a 50 caliber rifle honed in on the engine block of the Church with a laser site. Who in their right mind would hand such a weapon over to the critics? (like Darth J, the Dude, Cinepro, and Ralph Man firing away with their spring-loaded BB guns.)
You quoted MFB,
MFB wrote:All it would do is give ammo to the opposition.
It's interesting the ways a question like DG's can expose the assumptions of TBMs (and maybe critics). My guess -- exposing my assumptions about apologists as uninterested in truth and tactically oriented -- is that he is attempting to appear fair-minded and even-handed, as a ploy to show that TBMs have nothing to fear from critics while knowing at any time he can ban a poster and delete the post if it scores too many points.
Some TBMs may see the question as an opportunity to show that they have problems with the Church, but that this only proves the Church is true since Moses wasn't perfect. Others might interpret the question as an offer to go the religious studies route and speak freely about life as a Mormon, warts and all, without even considering that the mention of problems would somehow diminish the bonds to their heritage.
But for MFB the pragmatist, absolute truth is at stake, and it's no joking matter.
Long ago, a mission companion related to me some story about Joseph Smith where he told Bro. Brigham that if he (Joseph Smith) were to tell Brigham everything he knew (mysteries etc.) that even he (Brian Laundrie. Brig.) would leave him. The point was that Brigham worshiped Joseph Smith, even being the next-in-line in for the patriarchal throne, but even he was not prepared for the horrors of sheer truth that Joseph Smith was privy to. I have never investigated this story but MFB's sentiments immediately brought it to mind. If MFB were to gaze upon the Church with the horrors of his penetrating intellect, the Church would come within a hair's width of falsification and though it may yet stand, at the cost of how many testimonies? MFB's criticisms would be like a 50 caliber rifle honed in on the engine block of the Church with a laser site. Who in their right mind would hand such a weapon over to the critics? (like Darth J, the Dude, Cinepro, and Ralph Man firing away with their spring-loaded BB guns.)
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_LDSToronto
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 2515
- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:11 am
Re: Mopologetics is warfare
We are all enlisted till the conflict is o’er;
Happy are we! Happy are we!
Soldiers in the army, there’s a bright crown in store;
We shall win and wear it by and by.
Haste to the battle, quick to the field;
Truth is our helmet, buckler, and shield.
Stand by our colors; proudly they wave!
We’re joyfully, joyfully marching to our home.
Now, Johnny, get yer guns, we's goin' to WAR!
H.
Happy are we! Happy are we!
Soldiers in the army, there’s a bright crown in store;
We shall win and wear it by and by.
Haste to the battle, quick to the field;
Truth is our helmet, buckler, and shield.
Stand by our colors; proudly they wave!
We’re joyfully, joyfully marching to our home.
Now, Johnny, get yer guns, we's goin' to WAR!
H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
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_mfbukowski
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:35 pm
Re: Mopologetics is warfare
Gadianton wrote:
But for MFB the pragmatist, absolute truth is at stake, and it's no joking matter.
Pretty amazing that anyone would put "pragmatist" together with "absolute truth".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzynRPP9XkY