Chap wrote:As the Pew survey (frequently cited on this board) showed, the approximately 1.7% of the US population who respond "LDS/Mormon" when asked to state their religion has remained constant for the last decade.
So despite its unusually large family sizes, and the constant missionary effort, the CoJCoLDS is just keeping pace with US population growth and no more.
That must mean there is a considerable outflow from the church to offset the effect of large families and missionary conversions, which without significant membership losses would act to increase the LDS share of the population.
bcspace wrote:Just not seeing it in the US membership. Any "outflow" there is does not come from among the actives.
There is obviously an outflow. No scare quotes needed. Otherwise (given the large families and the missionary conversions) the proportion of the US population who say they are LDS/Mormon would be rising.
But it isn't.
(And please remember that these figures are not the church's "stay on the rolls unless you resign or pass the age of 102" figures. This is a count of people who are willing to say "I am LDS" - the real stuff.)
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
bcspace wrote:I once almost convinced a GA of the notion of a two hour block. A 30 min Sacrament meeting and 45 mins each for the rest. F&T was his main concern. For that day, I proposed the normal 65 min meeting and the rest replaced with a ward or stake potluck to break the fast.
I keep suggesting and proposing. Back to larger wards also so the youth aren't so stretched, etc. Not going to happen. They want the tension of smaller wards so more have a calling and there is more incentive to reactivate what you have.
The problem is they cut a lot of the fun programs, get these smaller wards so more people have callings, and make the members feel obligated to reactivate the inactives if they want to grow. So what happens when a member has a crises of faith? What is keeping them motivated to continue to sacrifice time and money volunteering for an organization he/she no longer believes in? Maybe I'm remembering the past with rose colored glasses, but it seems back in the old days the ward was more like a family than a job. You didn't worry so much about the issues of doctrine because you genuinely enjoyed going to church.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
Institute a retirement program for all GAs after 70 years of age.
Bring back Homemaking Meeting.
Lose the white shirt/tie uniform.
Bring back the Activities committee.
Make missions service missions only.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
Buffalo wrote:What they need to do is stop motivating people to leave by making church fulfilling and enjoyable instead of mindless drudgery.
I wonder how many people have left the church just because they were so terribly bored with it all.
harmony wrote:Get rid of Boy Scouts.
I never cared much for Boy Scouts, and having it be part of the church made it awkward to get out of it.
I remember when my ward used to do campouts together. I was young, but there did seem to be a sense of community then that seems difficult to achieve now.
bcspace wrote:I once almost convinced a GA of the notion of a two hour block. A 30 min Sacrament meeting and 45 mins each for the rest. F&T was his main concern. For that day, I proposed the normal 65 min meeting and the rest replaced with a ward or stake potluck to break the fast.
I keep suggesting and proposing. Back to larger wards also so the youth aren't so stretched, etc. Not going to happen. They want the tension of smaller wards so more have a calling and there is more incentive to reactivate what you have.
Ah ha! bc which GAs gofer are you? You're NOT RR are you? Use to edit stuff in COB and hate me personally? Hmm? Once was my mummy's bishop? Well, if you are I got a serious bone to pick with you bud.
Runtu wrote:Stop insisting that every church activity have a "gospel purpose." Sometimes just getting together and having fun builds a sense of community and brotherhood.
Bring back "super-activities" that don't have fund-raising restrictions (and get rid of the 90-minute away rule).
I think all of these ideas, including Steve Benson's (surprisingly), are good ones.
That gospel purpose crap is just a joy killer, largely because they forget Joseph's Smith's words about joy being the object of our existence, and replace it with insipid pablum designed to induce sleep or the warm fuzzies.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Runtu wrote:Stop insisting that every church activity have a "gospel purpose." Sometimes just getting together and having fun builds a sense of community and brotherhood.
Bring back "super-activities" that don't have fund-raising restrictions (and get rid of the 90-minute away rule).
I think all of these ideas, including Steve Benson's (surprisingly), are good ones.
That gospel purpose crap is just a joy killer, largely because they forget Joseph's Smith's words about joy being the object of our existence, and replace it with insipid pablum designed to induce sleep or the warm fuzzies.
I think the "gospel purpose" theme is why they came up with the pioneer trek. The problem is, when they replace Youth Conference with the pioneer trek, then you run the risk of youth who have health problems not being able to participate every other year.
This is what happened to my girls. My oldest daughter has high blood pressure as a result of kidney reflux. The doctor would not allow her to do that kind of a trek. My younger daughter has asthma and extreme allergies. Her doctor would not approve that type of rigorous trek, either. They could both do girls camp, because the activities were modified. But there is no way to modify this type of a trek. Those with health problems are simply left out.