Why Is It So Hard to Figure Out What Mormons Believe?

[_Drifting]

How does one know the water in John 3:5 refers to water baptism instead of physical birth for example? Where is it stated in the scriptures that one will have an opportunity to marry in the afterlife in not in mortality? Where is it stated in the scriptures that abortion meets the criteria for "like unto murder"?

All of these points are non doctrinal and are, therefore, your own personal speculation and opinion.

[_bcspace]

How does one know the water in John 3:5 refers to water baptism instead of physical birth for example? Where is it stated in the scriptures that one will have an opportunity to marry in the afterlife in not in mortality? Where is it stated in the scriptures that abortion meets the criteria for "like unto murder"?

All of these points are non doctrinal and are, therefore, your own personal speculation and opinion.

As would be anything else by that logic. Thankfully the Church has stated the official publications are doctrine.

[_Drifting]

As would be anything else by that logic. Thankfully the Church has stated the official publications are doctrine.

So what did Bott say, to earn him such a slapping from the Church, that hadn't been stated in official Church publications or canon?

[_Buffalo]

bcspace, the sooner you realize that the general authorities are now being lead by the apologists and not the other way around, the better. Christofferson sided with the mopologetic "doctrine is whatever we want it to be" position, not with your fundamentalist position. You're clearly in deep denial.

The first stage of grief is denial. Next comes anger.

[_Drifting]

In answer to the Op.

I think establishing what Mormon's really believe is an impossible task because nobody knows.

The Church had a theologist Apostle. A religiously learned man who studied the Mormon Gospel inside and out. He is probably the most learned man about the doctrines of Mormonism than anyone else has ever been.

He understood the need to be clear with the membership about what the beliefs of Mormonism were. So he wrote a book. This book was such a clear guide of the explicit teachings and beliefs of Mormonism it was given out as a standard text book to the Missionaries across the world and all members were exhorted by the Church to have a copy of it in their home.

That book was 'Mormon Doctrine' by Bruce R McConkie.
It is now banished to the status of verging on anti-Mormon.

If Bruce couldn't figure it out we've got no chance...

[_bcspace]

bcspace, the sooner you realize that the general authorities are now being lead by the apologists and not the other way around, the better.

Too many individuals at FAIR are slowly diverging from the Church's stated views for that to be true. Their problem is that instead of being objective, they've become a brand separate from the Church.

Christofferson sided with the mopologetic "doctrine is whatever we want it to be" position, not with your fundamentalist position.

No he didn't. Your lack of evidence is telling.

That book was 'Mormon Doctrine' by Bruce R McConkie.
It is now banished to the status of verging on anti-Mormon.

If Bruce couldn't figure it out we've got no chance...

An old canard. At the time of publication, BRM couldn't get Church approval so he had to publish it separately from the Church.

[_Drifting]

That book was 'Mormon Doctrine' by Bruce R McConkie.
It is now banished to the status of verging on anti-Mormon.

If Bruce couldn't figure it out we've got no chance...

An old canard. At the time of publication, BRM couldn't get Church approval so he had to publish it separately from the Church.

Everything I posted about that book is accurate.
If he found it hard to get approval (and there is scant support for that view) why were missionaries routinely given it as source material and why we're all members exhorted to have a copy in their home?

The fact remains, if a full time theologian serving as an Apostle of the Lord; working under divine guidance, couldn't get a grasp of what Mormonism's beliefs actually were, what chance does anyone else have of sifting through the double speak fudge that is currently produced by the Church's main explanatory arm - the Newsroom?

[_Fence Sitter]

I think establishing what Mormon's really believe is an impossible task because nobody knows.

Not difficult really. Mormons worship authority.

[_Themis]

Nope. You don't have a single example of where they successfully stood up to me. And none of them has reported asking their Bishop or Stake pres. as I have advised and none of them will stand up in class on Sunday and deny. by the way, did you see the post in the most recently closed thread on race where Juliann denied LDS canon point blank (Moses 7:22)? Post #40.

Still going over your head. Policy for example is not doctrine, even though policy is contained in published material. Even a current manual has advice to members not to marry people of different race or culture. This certainly is not current doctrine, and I would say probably does not even represent current policy. Manuals and other published material will contain other advice, historical events, etc that do not represent doctrine. The church also does not prelude that false doctrine could be in published material even though they do take steps to avoid it. The church is not very consistent and changing so I can understand why many members like yourself can get confused.

[_Buffalo]

No he didn't. Your lack of evidence is telling.

Conference talks will be available tomorrow. Published on the church website. Today is the last day of your "Approaching Mormon Doctrine" doctrine. Tomorrow it expires. Enjoy it while it lasts.