Infymus wrote:This exactly why I send anyone questioning Mormonism to FAIR, FARMS, NWI.
The problem is apologists are members who want to believe regardless of the evidence and are biased enough to buy into some very poor reasoning and mental gymnastics. This is why they think fair and farms will be a place to help members. It's not. Those members who are likewise want to believe more then they want the truth will always seek something to maintain belief.
It's the other members, who want truth even if it means having to accept cherished beliefs are wrong, that they (apologists) can't grasp are helping to see the church is not true. They do not accept what is said in the media, books, or sites like the Tanners. They consider then to be anti so they look to see what the church or LDS friendly places have to say about it. There they get information confirming things like polyandry, papyri not translating into a Abraham story, etc.
If they really understood they would either stop believing themselves or they would stop apologia and just state it's all lies.
FAIR was a great help to me as was their discussion board. They made me realize that critics have their interpretations and the apologists had their own interpretations. At the end of the day, the Book of Mormon has not been proven false and we have 11 witnesses to verify it. Plus, the question remains: who wrote the Book of Mormon? Reading critic boards, they have become experts at casting doubt in members' minds. The OP has fallen in line and is now getting kudos from the critics. Sad.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Mormonism a cult? It is certainly a strange cult. I saw no cult like behavior at the latest GC. What I see in the Mormon church is different opinions among members. In fact, at times in the meetings people have a difficult time agreeing with each other. Strange cult.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Mormonism a cult? It is certainly a strange cult. I saw no cult like behavior at the latest GC. What I see in the Mormon church is different opinions among members. In fact, at times in the meetings people have a difficult time agreeing with each other. Strange cult.
Try to leave, see what happens. Then make that same affirmation.
Rollo Tomasi wrote:For a long time I've believed that MAD hurts the Church more than it helps (at least as individual members are concerned). I'm frankly surprised that the Church (i.e., the institutional Church) hasn't applied pressure to either shut or tone MAD down. Once MAD purged the "undesirables" (myself included), it became an even nastier place, in my opinion.
Why would the church put pressure on MDD or FAIR? It is not a cult. It does allow blogs and forums to exist among members who post on such forums and blogs. It is a church that accepts opinions among its members.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
SteelHead wrote: Try to leave, see what happens. Then make that same affirmation.
I have been inactive for over 30 years and no one cares and never have cared. I come and go and feel no pressure. In fact, I wish that members would care. But...no one does. To each his or her own in the LDS church.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
If I may ask, were you married in the temple? Ever told that you are throwing your family away? Ever told that something bad will happen, your kids will all be drug addicts? Ever heard the rumors that you must be; cheating, using drugs, blah blah?
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
Infymus wrote:This exactly why I send anyone questioning Mormonism to FAIR, FARMS, NWI.
The problem is apologists are members who want to believe regardless of the evidence and are biased enough to buy into some very poor reasoning and mental gymnastics. This is why they think fair and farms will be a place to help members. It's not. Those members who are likewise want to believe more then they want the truth will always seek something to maintain belief.
It's the other members, who want truth even if it means having to accept cherished beliefs are wrong, that they (apologists) can't grasp are helping to see the church is not true. They do not accept what is said in the media, books, or sites like the Tanners. They consider then to be anti so they look to see what the church or LDS friendly places have to say about it. There they get information confirming things like polyandry, papyri not translating into a Abraham story, etc.
If they really understood they would either stop believing themselves or they would stop apologia and just state it's all lies.
I wonder if this is why MST was started. Perhaps they're starting to understand that what they're doing isn't working. So they do the age old standby - testify.
why me wrote:FAIR was a great help to me as was their discussion board. They made me realize that critics have their interpretations and the apologists had their own interpretations. At the end of the day, the Book of Mormon has not been proven false and we have 11 witnesses to verify it. Plus, the question remains: who wrote the Book of Mormon? Reading critic boards, they have become experts at casting doubt in members' minds. The OP has fallen in line and is now getting kudos from the critics. Sad.
Who wrote it? The scribes. Duh. From whose mind did it come? Joseph. DUH. Under whose influence was Joseph?.... Now THAT is the question.
The rest is unassailable, since we have witnesses!
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
Rollo Tomasi wrote:For a long time I've believed that MAD hurts the Church more than it helps (at least as individual members are concerned). I'm frankly surprised that the Church (i.e., the institutional Church) hasn't applied pressure to either shut or tone MAD down. Once MAD purged the "undesirables" (myself included), it became an even nastier place, in my opinion.
Why would the church put pressure on MDD or FAIR? It is not a cult. It does allow blogs and forums to exist among members who post on such forums and blogs. It is a church that accepts opinions among its members.
Is that true? As I recall, Prof. Randy Bott was ordered by Church leaders to take down his blog in the wake of his embarrassing blacks-and-the-priesthood comments.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14