Without the 'god' belief and fear, an individual matures morally by realizing that his or her fellow mankind and community are more prominent in his thinking and existence
What in the world does mature or grow morally mean if morality isn't a truth seeking faculty?
Do you really think peoples God belief solely stems from a carrot and a stick? Do you have any study that removes that from your mere opinion?
mikwut
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell. -Michael Polanyi
"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40
mikwut wrote: You constantly get this wrong with what I say. This issue isn't universal agreement because moral development, maturity are growth and agreed upon. The issue is reliability. If there is no God there doesn't seem to be any reason (even universal agreement of certain things) to believe that moral growth is reliable towards truth.
mikwut
Actually there is for some truths. Some morals work to help society work better. The truth there would be that it does work. I am not sure what supposed truths you are referring to.
LDSToronto wrote:What do the 6,000,000,000 minus 14,000,000 do? How have they gotten by without a prophet dictating an ethical code by which to live?
This.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
I still think your not listening intently. You didn't address reliability toward truth - just pragmatic utility. And that still doesn't answer anything because pragmatic utility depends on what individuals or society value. If society values materialism over human dignity than the utility will be manifest towards the material utility rather than the human dignity. Competing values don't allow for pragmatic utility to be offered as truth. You haven't answered anything.
mikwut
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell. -Michael Polanyi
"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell. -Michael Polanyi
"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40
mikwut wrote:What in the world does mature or grow morally mean if morality isn't a truth seeking faculty?
mikwut
Then you agree that science yields more morality, by ever seeking truth, than religion that asks the truth seeker to stop his pursuit and wait until 'god's due time' to reveal it rather than pressing god for an explanation now?
Then you agree that science yields more morality, by ever seeking truth, than religion that asks the truth seeker to stop his pursuit and wait until 'god's due time' to reveal it rather than pressing god for an explanation now?
How does that follow from what I asked? Science somehow has a moral growth meter? What is a specific example of what you are talking about?
mikwut
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell. -Michael Polanyi
"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40