How did the LDS membership department get it so wrong?

[_Chap]

We're seeing into the soul of an organization coming to terms with its own very public death. There was likely a group of men sitting at a table facing the excruciating fact that if they submitted accurate numbers to this survey, it would show the world they have stopped growing. So they did what the church always does. They decided to change history and create a lie. Again.

Yup. And it is noteworthy that no LDS source has contradicted the analysis of the figures that lies behind this statement.

Sooner or later the CoJCoLDS is going to have to admit to its US members that it is a well-established fact they are no longer growing as a proportion of the population. Later no doubt will come the time when it has to be said that absolute numbers of people who see themselves as LDS (as opposed to well-nigh meaningless roll numbers) are falling too.

But fear not! Even if the day comes when there are no ordinary members at all, those farms and businesses, plus The Great and Spacious Mall, will be there to support the Lord's Apostles in the style that Jesus wants them to enjoy. So no worries., eh?

[_Equality]

Count me as one unsurprised that the church would lie about its membership numbers to try to get good press. But why the hell didn't Peggy Fletcher Stack catch it? She ought to be better than that.

[_Runtu]

Count me as one unsurprised that the church would lie about its membership numbers to try to get good press. But why the hell didn't Peggy Fletcher Stack catch it? She ought to be better than that.

That surprised me, too. I note that the DesNews cited the original numbers but has not corrected it.

[_Stormy Waters]

Count me as one unsurprised that the church would lie about its membership numbers to try to get good press. But why the hell didn't Peggy Fletcher Stack catch it? She ought to be better than that.

That surprised me, too. I note that the DesNews cited the original numbers but has not corrected it.

They did. Although it should be noted that I had to use google to find it. The original article is currently under the 'most commented' and doesn't seem to have a correction or retraction on it.

[_Runtu]

They did.[/url] Although it should be noted that I had to use google to find it. The original article is currently under the 'most commented' and doesn't seem to have a correction or retraction on it.

I stand corrected, but I looked for it on the web site, and I couldn't find it, so I assumed, incorrectly, that they hadn't retracted it.

[_Stormy Waters]

They did.[/url] Although it should be noted that I had to use google to find it. The original article is currently under the 'most commented' and doesn't seem to have a correction or retraction on it.

I stand corrected, but I looked for it on the web site, and I couldn't find it, so I assumed, incorrectly, that they hadn't retracted it.

Well like I said I had to use google to find it. I can't seem to find it by navigating their website either. It seems to be one of those cases where they print the retraction on page five in small print.

[_bcspace]

Do they have a track record of mix ups akin to the COB's track record of lying?

I see you have no evidence for the later, but the article gave evidence of the former.

[Guest]

For your consideration:

Change lowers LDS Church growth rate | The Salt Lake Tribune

Fortigurn's Lazy Research. They had access to both figures.

For those years, he said, the LDS Church "left out numbers of members who, although baptized, were not currently associated with a specific congregation. This year, we included total membership numbers to more accurately reflect all of those found on church records."

Not unreasonable. No evidence of deception.

Dale Jones, a researcher on the Religion Census, said he wished the LDS Church had alerted him about the change in its reporting methods. But Jones, director of research services at the Church of the Nazarene Global Ministry Center in Kansas, said he had no problem with the shift.

"Any group can define [its membership] however they like," Jones said. "Mormons are not the only ones to change, and it’s not a big deal."

Case closed.

In fact, Jones said, reporting the LDS Church’s entire membership list "is closer to what most Protestants do."

In his own Nazarene faith, officials "have an inactive members list as well, and we do include them in our total membership," he said. "In that sense, this move actually strengthens our case for saying our data is pretty comparable across denominations."

This puts the critics on this issue squarely where they belong, in the realm of hypocrisy and yellow journalism.

"We estimate that only 40 percent of LDS Church members in the U.S. attend church regularly," said Matt Martinich, an independent researcher who studies Mormon demographics for cumorah.com. "That number varies by region — some areas have very high attendance like 70 percent and some as low as 20 percent."

Martinich gets that activity rate by comparing the ratio of members to congregations, LDS seminary and institute enrollment, and member and missionary reports.

My own anecdotal experience (and access to my area and regional data) has always shown around 50% for states like Texas, California, Utah, Montana, and Idaho. Pretty steady for 30 years so I don't believe the rise of the internet or any form of anti Mormonism is a significant factor here; it's just life and the parable of the sower.

Anyone in Priesthood leadership in a ward can give you theirs.

Bcspace?

Yes?

[_Buffalo]

Do they have a track record of mix ups akin to the COB's track record of lying?

I see you have no evidence for the later, but the article gave evidence of the former.

"Indians and white settlers accompanied by a few Mormons participated in a massacre of the Fancher Wagon Train." - GBH

[_Equality]

In fact, Jones said, reporting the LDS Church’s entire membership list "is closer to what most Protestants do."

In his own Nazarene faith, officials "have an inactive members list as well, and we do include them in our total membership," he said. "In that sense, this move actually strengthens our case for saying our data is pretty comparable across denominations."

CFR. He uses one anecdote, unsourced, to support his contention that "most" Protestants report numbers the way the LDS church did. BS.

If it wasn't embarrassing for the church to be caught in a lie like this, I'm sure it would not be so hard to find a retraction on the Des News web site. You are spinning and deceiving for the liars on Temple Street, bcspace. For shame. 2 Nephi 9:34. Put that in your hookah and smoke it, pal.