Zion is gay leary but not gay stupid

[_Darth J]

DarthJ, pre-life behavior has sad consequences. And at the same time it has its advantages too that manifest in great lives even prophets. If that world was a reality it must manifest here. We do start here with a clean slate of innocence. As we grow up sin conceives in our heart. From whence? Only from this world? How much actual observation and contemplation and choosing this or that are little children capable of. I fail to see much. We bring baggage with us in our intelligence which is eternal and cannot be created or made. I believe gay people know even before they are eight years old that they are "special that way". The spirit world and this life are the same play in different scenes.

Oh, I see. I misunderstood you as saying God is fair. What you are actually saying is that God gave us just enough of a conscience to make him seem incredibly unjust. Somehow, I get the feeling that it will also turn out to be our fault that the Light of Christ makes God's behavior look arbitrary and unjust to us.

[_Shulem]

I don't agree with NL on much but I do appreciate his perspectives. I find it lame and inconsiderate to drop to the level of name calling which only exposes a closed minded intellect. Which is the very thing that some here accuse the believers of suffering from.

Again, NL, thank you for your perspective. I try to keep an open mind to anyone's perspective no matter how "nutty" some may think it is.

Fine. Stick you head in a plastic bag. That's all you're ever going to get from Lion-boy. Air with no life!

Paul O

[_Nightlion]

So, to your point, I sacrificed the fullness of my feminine side to lock in my masculinity prudently and diligently. Those who will not sacrifice accordingly will have hell to pay because sexuality is the law.

What is the "feminine" that you sacrificed. Please enlighten us as to what constitutes "feminine" and "masculine."

I'd also like to know what that has to do with who you are sexually attracted to.

Intelligence is not created or made. It is light and truth. It is not sexual. We stepped out of the light of truth as independent organized spheres of existence. We were given the knowledge that pertained to our "assigned" sphere of existence. Human for us.

You have to realize that God did not come by way of the seeds. God cannot be a sexual being. That is the reality of who God is. The feminine side of God is manifested mostly in the Christ. He suffers in great agony to bring forth his seed conceived by his shed blood and sacrifice. He calls his chickens under his wings as a female hen to gather them to nurture them. Who can deny that God draws upon the feminine in the atonement? We are to be born of God.

God has included in a fullness of light and truth the feminine, his wisdom as it was called anciently when someone else realized this and of course that knowledge got polluted. I mean of course people have not been thinking about this at all in our day and time. We also had to a lesser degree according to our intelligence light and truth that could support sexual assignment to male or female. God required of us to be divided according to seed life requirements of sexual assignment. Basically he was dividing so as to conquer his enemy. Removing half of who we are weakens us that we can pose no threat to his kingdom.

Those who intended to threaten the kingdom of God were cast out. The natural man is always an enemy to God. Hence the gospel was designed to change the natural man and raise him up as the seed of God to a higher state of existence. The gospel is not sexual conception but spiritual. To God all things are spiritual and never is he carnal nor sensual. D&C 29.

That is God and once we sacrifice half of who we are we remain less than God is. Seems like asking too much. The Devil thought so and stepped off. In our seed/sexual assignment he commanded us to be so "assigned". Notice that is the same as when we were taken out of the light of truth and "assigned" (D&C 93) a specific sphere of existence.

I mean, what if we somehow knew that we should have been unicorns and not human? Should we act out as unicorns, is that what demons are doing manifesting as all sorts of contorted beings? Sorry, just having a bit of fun here.

God made us and has the right to assign us at will. If 1/3rd of all the hosts of heaven were so offended at losing half their intelligence would you not suppose that a great many more were just as offended but feared to rebel and would seek to continue anyway? Seems very likely. And so how would these secret agents finally be detected? The rejection of sexual assignment would manifest precisely as they do in this physical world.

We could project how many varied choices could alter our fate. If you kept a deep hatred of sexual assignment thinking that resisting this might preserve a fullness of intelligence for you to remain all you are and not have to sacrifice if you resisted, then perhaps it would manifest as hatred for the opposite sex. Nobody hates themselves, or do they, transgenders? hmm? This opens up lots of interesting scenarios. If someone harbored hatred for the existence of an opposite sex for billions of years up there, and when they get here promptly continue that hatred to some greater or lesser degree, sexual identity would follow accordingly. They reject an opposite sex and when the sex drive of the physical world manifests it will reject an opposite sex and what then are you left with? Sex happens.

How we responded to our sexual assignment determines much of our life here. We are the same person even though we forget the pre-existence. We are self-programmed there to act out here. So even if you did not choose in the pre-existence to be homosexual, your rejection of and resentment for sexual assignment that requires the loss of half of your native intelligence could manifest in homosexual behaviors here. Like rejecting A means you get B. Deal with it.

I apologize for the tease. I have spent forty years thinking on this level and it is asking a lot for your understanding. Call me crazy.

[_Kishkumen]

Although I don't buy into Nightlion's vision of the causes of gender difference, I give him full points for creativity in comparison with the Proclamation on the Family produced by the LDS apostles, which basically says, plumbing=gender, plumbing and gender=eternal, gay=aberration.

Nightlion's hypothesis has more in common with Plato, which sees premortal gender in terms of a dual-gender identity. Plato's view, however, is much less stigmatizing, inasmuch as he sees dual male-male gender, and dual female-female gender, as equally possible and legitimate options. So, humans are torn in two and seek their other half in this life.

For Nightlion, we sacrifice other gender characteristics in order to be one gender for the forwarding of God's purposes for humankind. The problem, as I see it, is that homosexuality is rooted, in his schema, in a bad choice, like the negative LDS theology of race, which has been thankfully abandoned.

I don't know why Nightlion has gone this route. It seems to me that he should reflect on where this is coming from, since the abandoned LDS theology of race is late, wrong, and bad. Why should a gender theology of Nightlion look so much like that? I have a hard time accepting that the Apocalrock is speaking to him in this way.

[_Nightlion]

I don't agree with NL on much but I do appreciate his perspectives. I find it lame and inconsiderate to drop to the level of name calling which only exposes a closed minded intellect. Which is the very thing that some here accuse the believers of suffering from.

Again, NL, thank you for your perspective. I try to keep an open mind to anyone's perspective no matter how "nutty" some may think it is.

Thank you.

[_Nightlion]

DarthJ, pre-life behavior has sad consequences. And at the same time it has its advantages too that manifest in great lives even prophets. If that world was a reality it must manifest here. We do start here with a clean slate of innocence. As we grow up sin conceives in our heart. From whence? Only from this world? How much actual observation and contemplation and choosing this or that are little children capable of. I fail to see much. We bring baggage with us in our intelligence which is eternal and cannot be created or made. I believe gay people know even before they are eight years old that they are "special that way". The spirit world and this life are the same play in different scenes.

Oh, I see. I misunderstood you as saying God is fair. What you are actually saying is that God gave us just enough of a conscience to make him seem incredibly unjust. Somehow, I get the feeling that it will also turn out to be our fault that the Light of Christ makes God's behavior look arbitrary and unjust to us.

Huh? You act as if Eternal Correctness somehow dictates to God what must be fair. There is no such thing. If you cannot appreciate God for who you are then at least appreciate him for all else that he has made. That sounds fair. Doesn't it?

[_Buffalo]

Huh? You act as if Eternal Correctness somehow dictates to God what must be fair. There is no such thing. If you cannot appreciate God for who you are then at least appreciate him for all else that he has made. That sounds fair. Doesn't it?

So your god isn't just? Not much of a god. “F” that guy. Right up the asshole, no reach around.

[_Nightlion]

Although I don't buy into Nightlion's vision of the causes of gender difference, I give him full points for creativity in comparison with the Proclamation on the Family produced by the LDS apostles, which basically says, plumbing=gender, plumbing and gender=eternal, gay=aberration.

Nightlion's hypothesis has more in common with Plato, which sees premortal gender in terms of a dual-gender identity. Plato's view, however, is much less stigmatizing, inasmuch as he sees dual male-male gender, and dual female-female gender, as equally possible and legitimate options. So, humans are torn in two and seek their other half in this life.

For Nightlion, we sacrifice other gender characteristics in order to be one gender for the forwarding of God's purposes for humankind. The problem, as I see it, is that homosexuality is rooted, in his schema, in a bad choice, like the negative LDS theology of race, which has been thankfully abandoned.

I don't know why Nightlion has gone this route. It seems to me that he should reflect on where this is coming from, since the abandoned LDS theology of race is late, wrong, and bad. Why should a gender theology of Nightlion look so much like that? I have a hard time accepting that the Apocalrock is speaking to him in this way.

Sorry I fail at Plato and cannot reason from his perspective at all. Let me first say that I have yet to get any inkling as per race assignment in this life.

Would you allow that intelligence is capable of making choices at all times and under any circumstance? If allowed then can we not expect appropriate consequences? My thesis is that we moved from a duality of a fullness of light and truth which light and truth does draw from masculine and feminine polarity. God shows this in who he is. Since sexual assignment is a given it seem both prudent and diligent to slough off intelligence that contradicts our program. Debugging our software to better suit the hardware.

I see the invention of seeds as a brilliant solution to that warfare independent intelligence is wont to join. It does divide and conquer. It establishes peace. And for consolation I have to say bravo on the shapes of things.

I expect that if understood properly my theology of sexual assignment relegates the faults in it to our own choice and prejudice. It does away with the notion that God made me this way.
Try and get people to take responsibility for anything. Sheesh!

The pre-existence is much more relevant than we know. Beside sexual identity there are many more choice laden consequences which follow us into this life. If race was a choice it would appear that Chinese was the all time favorite. Even in history and look at them now. Number one in everything, the richest and most powerful and scholastically the smartest. Wo is our doom.

Get me to Zion speedily, yea verily.

[_lulu]

Huh? You act as if Eternal Correctness somehow dictates to God what must be fair. There is no such thing. If you cannot appreciate God for who you are then at least appreciate him for all else that he has made. That sounds fair. Doesn't it?

No.

[_Nightlion]

Huh? You act as if Eternal Correctness somehow dictates to God what must be fair. There is no such thing. If you cannot appreciate God for who you are then at least appreciate him for all else that he has made. That sounds fair. Doesn't it?

So your god isn't just? Not much of a god.[/quote]

I see your sentiment as equal to that of all hypocrisy that fearfully seeks to finesse God into nifty boxes that man can buy and sell for money. Same violence. And for what its worth I think God hates the sophistry of hypocrisy more than crass vulgarity. Just sayin' You will never lead billions to destruction by inventing schemes that rob people of faith and salvation. Probably zilch.

Ranting about fairness is born of ignorance and immaturity.